The old adage is true: Babies do not come with instruction manuals. And figuring out all the products that a new baby needs can be a “high consideration, high discovery” enterprise, which is why expectant parents spend an average of 40 hours building out their baby registry, according to Babylist’s Chief Growth Officer Lee Anne Grant.
“You don’t know what a layette is, you don’t know what a glider is, you don’t know what the differences are in car seats, [but] you know they’re highly important decisions,” she says on this week’s episode of Retail Gets Real.
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That’s where Babylist comes in. “We help you make those decisions,” Grant says. With Babylist, registrants can choose gifts from a variety of stores. Then family and friends can purchase items either directly from Babylist or from any of its partner retailers. “We’re the leading vertical marketplace and ecommerce for everything baby. Eight million people purchased a gift off Babylist last year and we’re growing quickly.”
But Babylist is much more than a registry — it’s also a content destination, creating editorial guides that compare products, articles and reviews, sample registries, and videos for YouTube and TikTok, a platform where the brand is approaching 1 million followers. “We have to understand where people are going to be and that’s on TikTok, so we’re doing a lot there,” she says. “Babies are cute, and babies are funny, so clearly TikTok should be a part of our strategy, right?”
TikTok is a great platform not only in brand building and customer acquisition, “but it’s also for research and helping serve our customers who are looking for new products,” Grant says.
Babylist is also using in-person experiences including pop-ups as well as the metaverse to meet and serve consumers where they are. “We actually did two events earlier this year in beautiful large homes where our consumers could come and experience those products and see them in situ,” Grant says.
“And then we said, ‘Hey, let’s do a 3D photo shoot and put those in the metaverse.’ So, you can now walk through those homes … and see, ‘OK, what does it look like to have a bassinet next to the queen size bed in the main bedroom?’ Or ‘What does it look like, to have these play gyms in the middle of my living room?’ We’ve seen really good engagement with that.”
Listen to the full podcast to hear more about Grant’s career path from babysitter to Babylist, how the brand uses data to draw out customer insights and which products get the most clicks on Babylist’s metaverse store (spoiler: It’s not baby products).
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Episode transcript, edited for clarity
Bill Thorne: Welcome to Retail Gets Real, where we hear from retail’s most fascinating leaders about the industry that impacts everyone, everywhere, every day. I‘m Bill Thorne, and on today‘s episode we‘re talking to Lee Anne Grant, chief growth officer for Babylist, a website where new parents can register for any product from nearly any online store. We‘re going to talk to Lee Anne about her career journey, the evolution of Babylist into a commerce destination and the future of retail and the baby products market. Lee Anne Grant, welcome to Retail Gets Real.
Lee Anne Grant: Thank you so much for having me.
Bill Thorne: So, Lee Anne, you‘re in beautiful Oakland, California, and that is where Babylist is based. Let‘s figure out how you got to Oakland, California. What‘s been your career path?
Lee Anne Grant: Oh, that‘s such a good question. I grew up in Phoenix, Arizona.
Bill Thorne: That’s different from Oakland.
Lee Anne Grant: Yes, golf courses, spas, mountains — I love it there. I‘ve spent my career in media and then ecommerce retail. I started working when I was 12 babysitting, which maybe meant I was going to come to Babylist, but I‘ve always had a job. I think that that comes up for me a lot in my work ethic and my ability to get things done. Professionally, I really launched my career at Google. I was there in 2007.
Bill Thorne: Wow.
Lee Anne Grant: It was definitely not a startup, it was a public company, but it was much smaller and more nimble than it is today. I learned so much there. At that time, it was called the Online Sales and Operations Org — It was a sales org. We were growing the AdWords business. They just brought a bunch of college students out there and trained us. I was listening to your episode with CTM from Domino‘s and he said he started his career at a call center. I would say I did something similar. There was one phone number, 8662 – Google —
Bill Thorne: <laugh>
Lee Anne Grant: And if you called that number there was a pretty high likelihood that you would hear, ‘8662-Google this is Lee Anne, how can I help you today?’ It was supposed to be a phone number for our paying advertisers. But let me tell you, I helped people navigate Google Maps, find their lost password for Gmail and understand how to use Google Search. I share that because I think that I learned so much about listening to people, getting ahead of objections, understanding their needs and moving things forward — and I still use the skills today.
Bill Thorne: Well and an important skill, which is, ‘That’s not my area of expertise, let me transfer you to somebody else.’ I mean, that’s what you normally would expect. It’s getting to, ‘Yes, how can I help you?’ That’s the big part of that, I think.
Lee Anne Grant: Yes, and let’s figure this out together.
Bill Thorne: Yeah, exactly.
Lee Anne Grant: It’s management — ‘Oh, let me see. I don’t know actually how to do that right now, but I think I can figure that out with you.’
Bill Thorne: Yep.
Lee Anne Grant: I learned a lot at Google, grew my career and led really large advertising clients. A favorite was Groupon, if you remember Groupon?
Bill Thorne: Oh yeah, sure.
Lee Anne Grant: Just learning pay-per-click, SCM, SEO and all of that YouTube advertising. Fast forward to now, I’ve since worked at some other big media companies like AOL. I worked for about four and a half years at PopSugar, a media company. I led revenue for ShopStyle, which is an affiliate shopping company and that’s where I really started working with retailers. Big retailers like Neiman Marcus, disruptive retailers like The RealReal and got a taste for that ecommerce business. I’ve since worked at small startups including Brandless, which is a CPG disruptor. Then, I’ve been at Babylist for about two and a half years. I’ve always had roles in business development and marketing and have worked at media and ecommerce. That’s my role at Babylist and that’s our business model.
Bill Thorne: That’s fantastic. The Google thing — I was actually with a group of people a couple weekends ago. Somebody would ask a question and they’d say, ‘Well, GTS.’ I had no idea what that meant, that’s how disconnected I am. It was explained. I can’t say it right now, I’d just say ‘Google that S.’ Anyway, it’s become an acronym that I’m very much now familiar with and using, fyi. Babylist is much more than just a baby registry. Describe the business model and the evolution to where the company is now.
Lee Anne Grant: As you kicked off this episode you said, ‘Babylist is a baby registry where you can add any item from any store and people can buy any item from any store.’
Bill Thorne: But it is far more than that, if you go on the site.
Lee Anne Grant: That’s still the main value prop. That’s what the value prop was 11 years ago when our founder and CEO was eight months pregnant and said, ‘I want to create this bookmarklet, this website,’ and she did that. That’s why people choose us and that’s what has made us one of the leading baby registries. But fast forward to today, last year drove $700 million in GMV.
Bill Thorne: Wow.
Lee Anne Grant: We are the leading vertical marketplace in ecommerce for everything baby. Eight million people purchased a gift off Babylist last year and we’re growing quickly. The way that those purchases work is — let’s say I’m expecting a baby, I need all this stuff, I probably don’t know what I need. It’s kind of a high consideration, high discovery time. You don’t know what a layette is. You don’t know what a glider is. You don’t know what the differences are in car seats. You know they’re highly important decisions. You come to Babylist, we have tons of content guiding you through that experience and an app and an email. We help you make those decisions. Then you register for thousands of dollars’ worth of stuff and say, ‘I’m not going to buy this stuff, I’m going to send it to my friends and family.’
Bill Thorne: <laugh>
Lee Anne Grant: Your mother-in-law’s going to buy something. Your best friend, your coworker, everybody’s going to go to your Babylist. They can choose to either buy from Babylist — we have our own ecommerce business — or they can buy from any of our partner retailers. They can go to Pottery Barn Kids or Nordstrom or to direct-to-consumer. If they do that, then we’ll take a cut and affiliate fee from those revenues, from those purchases. Then we also have continued engagement with those parents and their friends and family after that purchasing moment. So, little Johnny is turning six months old, little Johnny’s first birthday, little Johnny’s first holiday season, little Johnny in this cute Halloween costume, all the things. We’ll email you about them, we’ll tell you about them and then people will make purchases.
Bill Thorne: It’s really a phenomenal model. I think the successful online marketplaces have this, and what they have is a community. You all have established a community where people engage with each other, where they engage with the company, with experts. I think that‘s really fantastic. It‘s what people want. They don‘t want to just go, click, buy.
Lee Anne Grant: Mnnhmm <affirmative>.
Bill Thorne: It‘s go, learn, become a better person as a result of it — more knowledgeable, buy and return. It is a great model that y‘all have established and it‘s a wonderful site, it really is. Customer data, I know, is really important. How does that drive or help drive Babylist’s growth strategy?
Lee Anne Grant: I have two reactions to that question. One is, customer data is one of the most important parts of our business, and we are not a data-driven company. I’ll talk to you about both of those. We have some really unique insights from our relationship with our customers. I have said earlier, we know expecting parents are having a baby and the gender of their baby. We know what brand’s price points they want across thousands of retailers. And then, we know all of their friends and family members. We call it owning the family graph. We know who your aunt is, what she bought your baby, we know who your coworkers are, all that. With all of that data and these multi-retailer product insights, we know that Grandma loves Nordstrom — my grandma Jean always loves Nordstrom — and that your best friend loves the direct-to-consumer sites. We use all of that in informing the content that we create, the emails that we send and our strategic growth. There’s so much more we could do with that to really serve our users and say, the example I was giving earlier of — your niece is turning one, your sister registered for the Lovevery Play Kit, you might want to buy her another subscription. There‘s just so much rich data in there from those emailing customers. We‘re currently hiring a VP of analytics, if you know anyone <laugh>, because we have a great data opportunity and have so many insights to hold from that.
Bill Thorne: It‘s not that I‘m looking for a job, but I did go to your job openings page. I don‘t know why, I guess I was just trying to figure out — well, first of all, your statement of purpose and everything, it is absolutely fantastic. Then I was like, I wonder what they’re hiring for. It was a lot of the analytics, a lot of research, that was very obvious that it’s an important part of your business.
Lee Anne Grant: Yeah, it’s interesting because we’re a technology company primarily. Our founder and CEO was an engineer at Amazon before she started Babylist. We have patents on our technology, and we have a whole ecommerce business. We’re always hiring for merchants and supply chain. Then we have a partnerships team, we’re hiring salespeople and we’re hiring editors. We have this whole — we really run the gamut. So, we have all this data we use this to understand the family graph and serve our users. Then I said, we’re not a data-driven company. We always say we’re not data-driven, we’re insights-driven because something that’s really important to us is that, sometimes when you look at the data you miss the insight. We have all of these reports and look at the KPIs, but we also do a ton of user research. UXR we have at least once a quarter at our all hands, seven or eight of our customers come —
Bill Thorne: Oh, nice.
Lee Anne Grant: We ask them questions live and it‘s the most fun thing.
Bill Thorne: Oh, that‘s fantastic.
Lee Anne Grant: We‘re always trying to get to the — yeah, maybe the data shows this, but what‘s the true insight? What‘s really going on with that user? Trust and ask people, look at the data, spend an hour doing that, not a hundred hours — I think people get lost in the data. Then go with your gut instinct or make the assumption. It‘s really just balancing those two things.
Bill Thorne: I love that idea of having the consumer basically help you, not only understand what the data‘s telling you but being able to interact and dig a little deeper. That‘s brilliant. We were talking earlier about the various platforms that are out there that can be used in order to tell the story of Babylist and create greater awareness. We just had a meeting in New York last week with our communicators, Retail Communicators Network, and we had somebody come in and talk to us about the metaverse. That was primarily for me. I‘m glad that everybody else was there and got the same kind of education that I did, but — because the metaverse is just this thing right now. If you ask different people, you get different answers as to what it is, why it is, what it will mean for retail, what it will mean for the consumer, and what it will mean for the user. I‘m very curious, how are you all viewing — and then there‘s TikTok that‘s not new, but it‘s kind of new as a part of the arsenal that you can use as a company to tell that story. What is the goal of using those channels and how is that working out for the company?
Lee Anne Grant: Let me talk about TikTok first. Actually, generally, we are doing a good amount in TikTok and the metaverse.
Bill Thorne: Really?
Lee Anne Grant: I don’t want that to be misconstrued as, every trend that’s in the news Babylist hops on. We’re very — <laugh>.
Bill Thorne: <laugh> Those are very important trends by the way. I would hop on them, fast.
Lee Anne Grant: Yes, exactly and we know our consumers so well, we’re able to say, these trends really apply to the consumer in the business model. Our consumer loves content. You have to learn so much. How do you install a car seat?
Bill Thorne: Right.
Lee Anne Grant: What is a layette? People spend 40 hours on average building their baby registry. Content, content, content. Babies are cute and babies are funny, so clearly TikTok should be a part of our strategy. That’s content, that’s consuming stuff, and that’s having a good time. We are not doing anything in live shopping. We’re not a live shopping company, a resale company, same-day delivery. There are all these trends that we’re not a part of. TikTok is our consumer. The thing with our consumer is — that’s the joke — they’re always getting younger or they’re staying — our consumer set is churning every year. You have to be pregnant or expecting a baby. Usually that’s between the ages of 20 and 40, so we have to understand where people are going to be, and that’s on TikTok. That will be the Instagram or the meta for us, we believe.
Bill Thorne: Sure.
Lee Anne Grant: We’re doing a lot there. We’re creating our own content, we’re engaging with the community, UGC. We’re going to be at a million followers in the next few months, which is bigger than the large consumer companies you hear about, like Glossier — we’re taking a really big bet on TikTok and it’s paying off.
Bill Thorne: Excellent, great.
Lee Anne Grant: It’s for acquisition brand building, but it’s also for research and helping serve our customers who are looking for new products. The metaverse is great.
Bill Thorne: You say.
Lee Anne Grant: <Laugh> Let me define to you how we or I think of the metaverse. I’ve been in retail for a few years now, and there’s this omnichannel trend where every retailer is like, ‘You have to be in-store and you have to be online.’
Bill Thorne: Yep.
Lee Anne Grant: The metaverse is saying, ‘What if you were in both?’ What if you took the best of in-store, seeing products in situ, being able to interact with them, seeing their size and shape, and the best of digital, content, reviews, social, et cetera, and you could do them both in the same environment. That’s augmented reality. That’s saying, if I was in-person seeing your product, could I add a digital element? Could I text my friend, could I compare prices, or see a video about this? Or virtual reality, which is saying, I’m on my computer. Can I see what these products would look like in a more real-life scenario?
Bill Thorne: Sure.
Lee Anne Grant: For Babylist, what we realize is a lot of these products are really high consideration. You want to do a lot of research and you want to see what they look like in your home. Because this baby is going to maybe just blow up how your home looks. You’re going to have to have a nursery, but you’re also going to need a highchair. What does a highchair look like next to a dining room table? What does a stroller look like in your garage? If you go into a retail store that sells baby products, they’re just putting it on a shelf. That’s not solving this problem of, ‘what is my life going to look like?’ We had that insight. We actually did two events earlier this year in beautiful large homes where our consumers could come experience those products and see them in situ. Then we said, ‘hey, let’s do a 3D photo shoot and put those in the metaverse.’ You can now walk through those homes from the comfort of your own home and see, what does it look like to have a bassinet next to the queen-size bed in the main bedroom? Or what does it look like to have these play gyms in the middle of my living room? We’ve seen really good engagement with interest in that, and it is really fascinating some of the top products that people click on in the metaverse —
Bill Thorne: Yeah.
Lee Anne Grant: Are the rugs and the footstools, not the baby products <laugh>. So, I’m going to redecorate my house now.
Bill Thorne: I think that’s pretty fantastic. It’s interesting because we had the interns of summer, and I brought it up during one of our regular meetings, I turned to them, I have to, for keeping up with the GTS’s of the world. All of these things that are happening, I threw out the metaverse. I said, ‘What do y’all think of the metaverse?’ They were all across the board. It wasn’t like, ‘I’m just so excited about it, I’m really accepting, I’m adopting it into what I’m doing, how I game and how I shop.’ It is so intriguing to me, primarily because people compare it constantly to where the internet was maybe 30 years ago and how it has evolved. They believe the metaverse is at that stage and it’s just about to take off. I think that different people see it for use in different ways.
Lee Anne Grant: Mnnhmm <affirmative>
Bill Thorne: How it all comes together, I don’t know, but it’s coming together because people are actually using it.
Lee Anne Grant: That was the same and probably still is the same with ecommerce 20 years ago, remember?
Bill Thorne: Yeah, for sure.
Lee Anne Grant: How they would say, it’s going to be — I think the vision of ecommerce was very different than the reality. Nobody said, these influencers are going to be posting on Instagram and making a bunch of money.
Bill Thorne: Oh my God, I know.
Lee Anne Grant: And ecommerce at that time was people just posting their catalog to the internet and then saying, ‘Do you want to place an order? Call us.’ It was this very clunky experience.
Bill Thorne: Yep.
Lee Anne Grant: People would say, no, this isn’t that bad or I would rather go into a store. I think that’s the case of the metaverse. We don’t actually know what it’s going to look like in 20 years. It could be really weird and dystopian, or it could be great. The technology and our ability to execute it right now is clunky. But if it takes off, and I think some version of it will. If I knew what that version was —
Bill Thorne: You would be so rich. <laugh>
Lee Anne Grant: <laugh> Yeah but I think there’s something there, and why not try it? Right now, our version of metaverse is not a trend. It’s actually serving our users.
Bill Thorne: No, I think getting out there and being an early adopter puts you far ahead of everybody else when they all of a sudden realize, oh my goodness, this thing is really taking off and it could make a difference in our business. Our customers want it, they are using it, we’re not doing it, and we’re losing customers as a result of it. So yeah, those early days of online shopping — it is fascinating. It’s a shame that there is a generation that doesn’t know what that’s like because —
Lee Anne Grant: Oh yeah.
Bill Thorne: It’s fun to look back on in a way that is like, thank God it has evolved.
Lee Anne Grant: And it still has so much more room to grow.
Bill Thorne: I know.
Lee Anne Grant: It was clunky. I remember, even ordering off Amazon 15 years ago.
Bill Thorne: We had a meeting and there was, I won’t say the brand, but I asked the question, I said, omnichannel — let’s say that you’re a Walmart and you have in-store, online, it’s all the same. I mean, if you’re going to make money online, it’s going to go to the bottom line for Walmart Inc. It’s just a different way to get the customer and to get that customer to make a purchase and contribute to the bottom line. But in the early days, it was really two separate entities, or people viewed it as two separate entities. The person that I was talking to said that they had a lot of learnings. One of the first was that people would go to the online site and they’d say, ‘I love that red dress and I’m going to be down by that store today, so I’m going to go get that red dress.’ Then they go into that store and they would be like, ‘I saw this red dress online, I’d like to buy it.’ They’d be like, ‘Well, we don’t carry that. We carry blue dresses, in that line.’ The buyers weren’t talking because you had a buyer for online and you had a buyer for in-store. It is so intriguing to me how that has evolved and today how seamless it is.
Lee Anne Grant: Oh yeah and I remember going to conferences 10 years ago, and people would talk about how there is this trend called showrooming. People are going to go into your store and they’re going to look at a product. Then they’re going to take out their phone and they’re going to compare prices. They’re going to see where else they can get it. How do you combat that? I’m like, no, you don’t combat the user behavior, you just understand that is what people are going to do.
Bill Thorne: Right. Your new full-service content studio, The Push. What was the thinking behind that? I love the name, by the way.
Lee Anne Grant: <laugh>
Bill Thorne: So perfect. The Push is just — I laughed when I read that. I just thought that there’s so many things that you can do around pregnancy that are fun.
Lee Anne Grant: I should tell you some of the names of our internal initiatives. We need to build the Babylist brand, so we are trying to not launch too many other brands, but we create great content. We have for, I think now eight years, have had editorial guides. Think the Wirecutter. We help you decide which stroller is right for you, what are the benefits, pros and cons of each. Then we have articles that help you figure out what you need and sample registries. We have won some editorial awards. We’ve won a Webby, so we’re a strong media company. Other brands realize this, brands that we work with, either we sell their products in our shop, or we have an affiliate relationship with them. They would come to us and say, ‘Hey Babylist, can you create some content for us? We are launching this new product. Can you guys post this?’ So, we’ve had an advertising business. I talked about this earlier, we have ecommerce, we have this marketplace revenue from affiliate partners, and then we also have an advertising revenue. Three ways that we make money. They said, ‘We don‘t want you to just send out a dedicated email to your audience about Huggies. We actually want you to create a video about it or TikTok or write an article.’ We have a branded content team, a branded editorial team, and we said, ‘Why don’t we just level that up, call this a creative studio?’ It actually came out of these events we did earlier this year where we were in these homes and we were creating TikToks, we’re shooting for the metaverse, and we are creating YouTube videos, all of that. Brands wanted to pay us for that. They wanted to pay us for the content creation and then also the distribution to our life stage audience. We started brainstorming names and came up with it, launched it. There’s been tons of inbound interests from not just baby brands, but non-endemic brands, financial services or car auto companies, who are saying, ‘Hey, I know that this consumer is going to spend a lot of money, make a lot of decisions at this time in their life. How can I create the content that really speaks to them?’ And that’s what we do the best.
Bill Thorne: You think too, the demographic that you’re serving is just so incredibly important. I’m sure that people’s desire to reach them and do it in a way that isn’t kind of in their face, that is really important.
Lee Anne Grant: Yeah, who really speaks their language and has that really authentic, trusted voice.
Bill Thorne: What makes you most excited about the future of retail?
Lee Anne Grant: I think things are really changing. Retail’s always been changing, but I think it has felt like the last few years, especially during COVID, we were in a little bit of a catch-up mode. Ecommerce was growing exponentially. Supply chain woes are hard. It has felt really reactive for the last couple years. I think the dust is starting to settle on that. People have hopefully the mind share, the interests, the time and money, to start investing in exploring new technologies like the metaverse, TikTok or social selling. Again, if I knew what part of the future retail was going to take off, I’d be a really rich woman. But I’m just excited for that reactive time to stop, to get people excited about building new things and see what comes out.
Bill Thorne: It’s fun to be in front of that, isn’t it? And to your point, I always say that there’s one constant in retail, and it doesn’t matter how big or how small, what you sell, and it’s change. Either you embrace change and make the best of it, or you resist it, fight it, get frustrated as a result, then you just find another industry because you’re never going to be happy in retail if you don’t like change.
Lee Anne Grant: I agree.
Bill Thorne: All right. We’ve been told we’re getting short on time. With that in mind, let me just ask this last question. What is the best piece of advice that you’ve ever gotten and what piece of advice would you give to people that are just starting out in the business?
Lee Anne Grant: They’re related. The best piece of feedback or advice I ever got was from Jen Wong. She’s currently the chief operating officer at Reddit, and she was our chief business officer at PopSugar. She’s the smartest person I’ve ever met. We worked together 10 years ago. She said, ‘I think you need to talk less in meetings.’ She’s so smart. She said, ‘I got this advice early on that sometimes the person who listens during a meeting and only talks when they have something additive to say is seen as the most intelligent person in that meeting or the person that contributes the most.’
Bill Thorne: Cool.
Lee Anne Grant: I think that was a big career shift for me. We’re saying, ‘Your job is not to prove that you’re smart. It’s actually to listen, distill, and then provide clarity to a meeting or provide an insight that nobody else had.’ I think about that and what Jen said a lot.
Bill Thorne: Great advice.
Lee Anne Grant: My advice then to people, I’m going to give two pieces. One is listen, really truly learn how to listen. Your job is not to, as you said, retail’s always changing. You don’t know everything and you will not progress in your career if you are not constantly learning. You can’t learn by talking. So listen, the second is — retail’s great, technology’s great, all of that. Just be an interesting person outside of work. Go on vacation, have hobbies. Go to the space museum, as we talked about earlier. Learn how to knit, learn how to sail. You’re going to be happier but also much better at your job if you can understand what’s happening out in the world and provide insights or connections that are not just about what’s going on in retail.
Bill Thorne: That is excellent advice. It is interesting. We do have a slide — we do presentations for interns, for member companies. We had anywhere from 500 to 50 on a call, on a Zoom. In the presentation one of the slides is, ‘you don’t know everything and that’s OK.’ It really is something that people, they get intimidated and it’s like, no. It’s best that you don’t know everything because that way you learn. Learning is such a big part of the job and listening. You can’t learn if you don’t listen. Lee Anne Grant, chief growth officer at Babylist, thank you so very much for your time. This has been incredibly interesting. I have found this fascinating. I really do appreciate the time that you took and learning what you’re doing at Babylist, because it’s pretty phenomenal.
Lee Anne Grant: Thanks Bill.
Bill Thorne: And thank you all for listening to another episode of Retail Gets Real. You can find more information about this episode at retailgetsreal.com. I’m Bill Thorne, this is Retail Gets Real. Thanks again for listening and until next time.