Rihanna’s lingerie brand, Savage X Fenty, is like the cool girl at the party, according to Christiane Pendarvis, co-president/chief merchandising and design officer for the brand.
“We did this one set of customer research where we asked customers — as well as people who had not bought the brand but were aware of us — what they thought about us,” Pendarvis says on this week’s episode of NRF’s Retail Gets Real podcast, recorded live at NRF 2023: Retail’s Big Show in New York City. “And they said, ‘Savage is the cool girl at the party, but that everybody likes.’ That’s kind of our culture … we’re fun. We’re tongue in cheek. We’re cool.”
Did you miss us in NYC? Take a look at our NRF 2023: Retail's Big Show event recap.
Over her 25-year retail career, Pendarvis has worked in all aspects of specialty apparel, including merchandising, product development and general management. But Savage X Fenty represented a new and unique opportunity in the marketplace along with a value proposition that “authentically stands for diversity and inclusivity.”
Not only does the Savage X Fenty website feature models of all shapes and sizes, but every product and style is developed in a misses version and a separate plus-size version. “We do twice the development work,” Pendarvis says. “And it’s because we want to stand for confidence and empowerment, which means that regardless of your size, my product needs to fit every single customer that I’m servicing equally the same.”
Increasingly, those customers include men, who have flocked to the website to buy men’s intimate apparel and loungewear. Savage X Fenty rolled out its first men’s line in September 2020 and sold out in days.
“We were really shocked because there’s not really a very strong, intimate brand that plays in both genders,” Pendarvis says. So the team developed some product for Valentine’s Day and again sold out quickly.
“It’s been fascinating to see how we’ve been able to grow that business and I think this idea of inclusivity and body positivity is not something that people historically associate with men.”
Listen to the full episode to hear Pendarvis’ take on what makes a good leader, how her leadership style has changed, the drive to increase diversity and inclusivity in the fashion industry, her impressions of NRF 2023: Retail’s Big Show and what it’s like to work for Rihanna.
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Episode transcript, edited for clarity
Bill Thorne: Welcome to Retail Gets Real, where we hear from retail's most fascinating leaders about the industry that impacts everyone everywhere, every day. I'm Bill Thorne from the National Retail Federation recording on-site from NRF 2023: Retail's Big Show, where more than 35,000 industry professionals have gathered in New York City to discuss the future of retail. Today's guest is Christiane Pendarvis, Savage X Fenty co-president and chief merchandising and design officer. We'll talk to Christiane about her career journey, the impact of retail and the future of fashion. Christiane Pendarvis, welcome to the Big Show <laugh>.
Christiane Pendarvis: Thank you <laugh>.
Bill Thorne: Welcome to Retail Gets Real. Let's get started. First tell us about Savage X Fenty for those who may not know about the brand.
Christiane Pendarvis: Absolutely. Which, if you guys don't know about our brand, I'm really sad for you.
Bill Thorne: I know about your brand and maybe some of our listeners don't know.
Christiane Pendarvis: We are Rihanna's lingerie brand. We were founded in May of 2018, so we're about four and a half years old. We are a brand who is attempting to disrupt the fashion industry. Just in a nutshell as everything Rihanna does, we stand for inclusivity, diversity, confidence, empowerment, particularly for women. I think we've created a very unique brand in the marketplace from both the product that we sell, as well as how we go to market and showcase it. We like to say that we are a brand for all sizes, shapes and shades. You'll see that really across our external projection of our marketing, but also in the product—
Bill Thorne: Right.
Christiane Pendarvis: That we develop and design. So we've taken the intimate apparel world by storm. We start with women's, we moved into men's, so we can service everybody, like really everybody.
Bill Thorne: Very nice.
Christiane Pendarvis: Then we just recently, this last fall, launched a new loungewear line. We've gotten into activewear.
Bill Thorne: Wow.
Christiane Pendarvis: We started direct-to-consumer. We've opened stores. So we literally are taking the world by storm.
Bill Thorne: Why aren't you asleep? <laugh> I mean, I'm just exhausted hearing that. So you're opening stores. Where do you have stores now?
Christiane Pendarvis: We have five stores in the U.S. only. Las Vegas was our first store, at the Fashion Show Mall—
Bill Thorne: Nice.
Christiane Pendarvis: Houston Galleria, King of Prussia, Philly.
Bill Thorne: Yeah.
Christiane Pendarvis: Culver City in Los Angeles and then Pentagon City in Washington, D.C.
Bill Thorne: Pentagon City in Washington, D.C. So I can walk in there and not feel like people are looking at me like, why is that man in here? Even though I'm old and probably not—
Christiane Pendarvis: Absolutely.
Bill Thorne: Looking for intimate apparel necessarily, at this age.
Christiane Pendarvis: Well, we really do say, our tagline is for everybody.
Bill Thorne: <laugh>.
Christiane Pendarvis: I know everybody sort of says that, but I encourage you to go into our store.
Bill Thorne: I'd like to and I will. We talked to the founder of Lovesac.
Christiane Pendarvis: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Bill Thorne: I happened to be at Pentagon City Mall walking through, and I was thrilled because there was a Lovesac store and I didn't know they even had, I thought they were primarily online. So it was kind of fun to see that, now I get the chance to go back and see Savage X Fenty.
Christiane Pendarvis: Absolutely. One thing you will know when you walk by our store, we have forms, mannequins, that were actually developed from real people's bodies.
Bill Thorne: No way.
Christiane Pendarvis: We scanned real human beings. There is size diversity and what I love most about, when I see men walk by our store and see our forms, they say, ‘Oh, wait a minute. That looks like my body.’
Bill Thorne: <laugh>.
Christiane Pendarvis: ‘So you guys make product for real people.’
Bill Thorne: <laugh> That's awesome.
Christiane Pendarvis: Yes, we do.
Bill Thorne: That is absolutely fantastic.
Bill Thorne: So Savage X Fenty, you're doing phenomenal things, but tell us about your career journey. I mean, how did you end up at Savage X Fenty?
Christiane Pendarvis: Well, it's a funny story. When I talked to the people that were recruiting me then, I didn't join the brand until January of 2020. It was a year and a half-ish after the brand had launched in market. I tell them, I was like, why didn't you get me earlier? I'm the perfect person for this job.
Bill Thorne: <laugh>.
Christiane Pendarvis: You've got to be kidding me. No, but in all seriousness, I've been in retail more years than I care to admit. I'll just go ahead and say that, all 25-plus years.
Bill Thorne: That's not bad.
Christiane Pendarvis: Not too bad. Most of my experience has been in specialty apparel, merchandising and general management. I grew up in places like Gap and American Eagle, Victoria's Secret, so I have intimate apparel experience, product development experience. Then literally seven, eight years ago, I moved over into direct-to-consumer, which I like to call the dark side of retail.
Bill Thorne: Right <laugh>.
Christiane Pendarvis: My job prior to Savage was with a plus size apparel company.
Bill Thorne: Oh neat.
Christiane Pendarvis: When you think about the proposition of Savage and the role that I play there, overseeing all of product creation for an intimate apparel brand that stands for size and inclusivity, that's direct-to-consumer, I sort of laugh. Everything that I've done leading up to this point really honestly prepared me for this role. And I feel super fortunate to be working for this brand.
Bill Thorne: That is, you are right. You have everything that they would need in order to tap into a knowledge base and an expertise to build the business. That's pretty phenomenal. What drew you to this brand specifically?
Christiane Pendarvis: So many things, honestly. Obviously, part of it is Rihanna. She's an incredible person with a lot of vision around disrupting any category of business that she chooses to get into, which she inherently stands for. But I think even more so, as I was looking at the opportunity and I came from being in the intimate apparel space, I just looked at the unique proposition that Savage was putting together. It stands for, authentically stands for, diversity and inclusivity, and I think what that means is far deeper for us than probably what people realized. I think about how we developed product, which I didn't know looking from the outside in. But we develop product where we develop a missy version of every style and a separate plus size version of every style. We do twice the development work and it's because we want to stand for confidence and empowerment.
Which means that regardless of your size, my product needs to fit every single customer that I'm servicing equally the same. I'm not going to compromise on that. We carry our entire line in missy and plus. We don't say, ‘OK, we've got 30% of the line that we're offering in plus.’ No, we say everything. From our most provocative sexy styles to our most basic styles, we say to our customer, ‘You get to choose, this is what empowerment really means.’
Bill Thorne: Yeah.
Christiane Pendarvis: As I started to research the brand and understand that about the DNA, that was incredibly enticing to me. Then I look at where we're positioned, which is in the value marketplace. We're incredibly accessible for all parties. Then I look at the combination of basic product as well as this very strong fashion point of view that we have.
Bill Thorne: Right.
Christiane Pendarvis: There was nobody else in the market that was doing this. I think, as new intimate apparel brands came online and looking to take market share from the leader in the category, they walked away from being sexy and being provocative and being sensual because they needed a different positioning. What we came in and said, women can define for themselves what they want to be. That piece of being sexy and provocative and sensual is a part of a woman's identity if she chooses for it to be a part. We need to service it all. That's sort of the approach I think that Savage took that was very unique. I look at all of those things combined as I was talking to them about the opportunity. I was like, this is Rihanna's side. This is an incredible proposition and an opportunity in the marketplace. That's really what drew me to the role.
Bill Thorne: That's pretty cool. What are the areas of focus for 2023 in the business?
Christiane Pendarvis: For us it's about continuing to expand. As I mentioned, we just launched two new categories in the fall of last year. We want to continue to grow those. Our customers tell us, here's what else we want from Savage. We're constantly looking to expand, to meet their needs. As I mentioned, we opened five retail stores. You're going to see a few more retail stores from us this year. We just have tremendous growth opportunity. We've only scratched the surface with men's. That will be another area of opportunity and focus for us. I feel incredibly fortunate to be in a brand that is so strong from a positioning perspective and recognition that for us it's about, ‘Okay, of the 10 opportunities, which are the three you're going to on first. That's a, it's an enviable position to be in.
Bill Thorne: It Truly is. When you look to the future, is it when you're growing those brands — so you've got your five brick and mortar stores, your online presence, that's pretty strong?
Christiane Pendarvis: Absolutely. That's the lion share of our business is our direct-to-consumer business.
Bill Thorne: And that's where it all started. Let me ask you this question. On the men's side of things, I'm intrigued, is it the men buying it or is it the wives and girlfriends buying it for the men?
Christiane Pendarvis: It is actually men buying it.
Bill Thorne: Is it really?
Christiane Pendarvis: It is men buying it. It was a funny story how we even got into men's. We have a partnership with Amazon Prime Video. We do a fashion show with them.
Bill Thorne: Nice.
Christiane Pendarvis: Started in — 2019 was the first one that we did with them. We did then the following year, a capsule collection of men's product. Because our fashion show is not really a fashion show, it's a music/dance/fashion sort of extravaganza.
Bill Thorne: Right.
Christiane Pendarvis: We had male dancers. We didn't have any Savage product for the male dancers to wear.
Bill Thorne: <laugh>.
Christiane Pendarvis: So we designed a capsule collection for the dancers, honestly, to wear. We're like, OK, yeah, we'll buy some inventory and put it on the site for sale. Sold out.
Bill Thorne: Really?!
Christiane Pendarvis: Sold out in days.
Bill Thorne: Wow.
Christiane Pendarvis: We were shocked. We were really shocked because there's not really a very strong, intimate brand that plays in both genders. There just hasn't been.
Bill Thorne: No.
Christiane Pendarvis: We said, ‘OK,’ that was in September of 2020, and we said, ‘Well, let's chase into some product for V Day. V Day makes sense.’
Bill Thorne: Right.
Christiane Pendarvis: So we chased in some product for V Day, again, sold out. We said, ‘OK, there's probably a business here.’ We have an incredibly strong data and analytics team. Because we what? Same question, we had the same question. Is it just our female customers buying for the significant others in their lives? We looked at the data names, our data and analytics team cross-referenced it against government data and we determined 85% of our sales were men buying for men. They were only buying men's products in their basket. Not a combination of men's and women's products.
Bill Thorne: That was going to be my next question.
Christiane Pendarvis: No, they were self, so it was like, ‘OK, no, this is self-purchase.’
Bill Thorne: Wow.
Christiane Pendarvis: It's been fascinating to see how we've been able to grow that business. I think this idea of inclusivity and body positivity is not something that people historically associate with men. But I've seen men say, ‘Wow,’ again, ‘Your mannequin looks like my body.’
Bill Thorne: <laugh>.
Christiane Pendarvis: It's reaffirming in a very odd way that you might not think a man might care about.
Bill Thorne: That's really interesting. I'm very intrigued by that. So, the culture of Savage, how would you describe that?
Christiane Pendarvis: We're fun. We're tongue in cheek. We're cool. You know, it's funny, we do all kinds of customer research and we did this one set of customer research where we asked customers as well as people who had not shopped the brand but were aware of us, what they thought about us. And they said, Savage is the girl at the party, but that everybody likes.
Bill Thorne: <laugh>.
Christiane Pendarvis: She's not the mean girl.
Bill Thorne: I like that!
Christiane Pendarvis: She's not the mean girl.
Bill Thorne: Right, right.
Christiane Pendarvis: Who's the cool girl but people don't really like her.
Bill Thorne: Right, right.
Christiane Pendarvis: She's the cool girl. And maybe sometimes people feel like, ‘Oh, well she's probably a little too cool for her us, I can't be friends with her.’
Bill Thorne: Right, right.
Christiane Pendarvis: But that's kind of our culture. Rihanna's an incredible person to have at the helm of this brand. She doesn't do anything that somebody else has already done. She pushes us to be innovative. Which is why if you look at our fashion show, it doesn't look like a fashion show.
Bill Thorne: I can't wait to look at it.
Christiane Pendarvis: When you go to our store, it doesn't look like a retail store. I remember as we were going through the design process and reviewing store design, she's like, I understand we're doing retail. We've got to have the ability to do volume.
Bill Thorne: Mm-hmm <affirmative>.
Christiane Pendarvis: This is not a museum, but her exact words, ‘It just can't look like a store.’
Bill Thorne: Wow.
Christiane Pendarvis: So innovative design, she really challenges us to think freely. I think part of her not having grown up in the retail industry, she's just more open-minded and free.
Bill Thorne: Right.
Christiane Pendarvis: And comfortable pushing the boundaries. A lot of that then permeates how we operate as a team is, we're not looking at what everybody else is doing.
Bill Thorne: Right, right.
Christiane Pendarvis: We're really trying to say, what's going to be cool? What would be something different that people haven't seen before?
Bill Thorne: That's so cool. Leadership, you obviously, given all of your background, your experience, what you bring to the company, what you bring to your colleagues, a lot of that is your leadership.
Christiane Pendarvis: Mm-hmm <affirmative>.
Bill Thorne: How do you define the way that you lead? Is it bringing along, is it — just tell me how you would define yourself as a leader.
Christiane Pendarvis: Great question. I will start by saying it has evolved tremendously over time. If I think about my first real leadership role and how I showed up in that role versus how I show up today, night and day difference. I'd say if there was one phrase I could use for how I try to lead is, I try to meet people where they are.
Bill Thorne: OK.
Christiane Pendarvis: What I've recognized over the years, many years leading teams, people need different things. There's some things that are consistent. You know, I'm a visionary person. I'm a strategic thinker. I like thinking big ideas. If left to me, I'd probably be less involved in the execution of all those big ideas. I was like, I want to just generate ideas. But obviously in the role that I said I have to get involved, so that is sort of my default and I'm so results-oriented.
I'm one of those people who's like, tell me what I need to accomplish and then get out of my way. I don't need you to tell me how to do it. I'll figure that out. As I've gotten awareness about myself in that, what I then also, leading teams, learned is, but not everybody's like me. They need different things to be motivated. I remember having a really hard time with one of my direct reports who was incredibly process-oriented. I was applying my standard of how I want to be managed to this person and it just didn't work. Because I'd say, ‘Here's the goal,’ and instead of, ‘I'm going to go tackle the goal,’ it was, ‘Well, can we talk about the process first?’ And I was like, ‘What? I don't need to be involved in the process. Why are we talking about the process? I don't need to be involved in the process.’ But I've learned then over time, you really have to figure out how you meet people where they are.
Bill Thorne: Yeah.
Christiane Pendarvis: Because my role as a leader is to unlock the power of the people who work for me.
Bill Thorne: Sure.
Christiane Pendarvis: I'm super clear. I grew up in merchandising. I can do an assortment plan and assortment architecture and pick product and all those things. I can't technically fit a bra, I wouldn't even begin to know where to start. So there's so many things that I technically can't do because that's not my functional expertise. I have to make sure that the people who are leading our teams and the people underneath them have the resources and the guidance and the direction that they need to in order to be successful.
Bill Thorne: Right.
Christiane Pendarvis: I very much say, let me get an assessment of where the teams are, where their leaders are, and let me be flexible.
Bill Thorne: Right.
Christiane Pendarvis: In how I'm providing them what they need. I'm probably also a bit of a cheerleader. Well, I actually was a cheerleader in high school and college, so I am a cheerleader, but I also approached work as a bit of a cheerleader. Of motivating and encouraging—
Bill Thorne: That’s a team
Christiane Pendarvis: The team.
Bill Thorne: Yeah.
Christiane Pendarvis: You have to do that and figure out what are those ways that you show value that you appreciate the work that they're doing.
Bill Thorne: Yeah.
Christiane Pendarvis: Those are all things and that you listen. I'd say I'm also very much, I try to be a listener.
Bill Thorne: Yeah. I mean, a good leader is a good listener. You know, the progress thing. I'm old and set in my ways, but the part of the thing is when I — I too get very frustrated with people that focus on process as opposed to progress.
Christiane Pendarvis: Yeah.
Bill Thorne: I've had to really work on that even at this point in my career. But it is hard sometimes. I mean if you are a progress person.
Christiane Pendarvis: Yeah.
Bill Thorne: Dealing with the process people. Anywho, diversity and inclusion. It's so important and it's so important in terms of your ability to be authentic in what you do and what you say. How do you think businesses are doing? Are they getting better? Are they getting smarter? Is this something that is, you're hearing more about? Or is it something that you think people are just engaging in because they feel like they need to?
Christiane Pendarvis: I do think it's getting better.
Bill Thorne: I do too.
Christiane Pendarvis: I think there's been measurable progress since the summer of 2020. We still have a tremendous way to go.
Bill Thorne: Yep.
Christiane Pendarvis: But as somebody who's been in this industry a very long time, I've loved it for so many reasons. I get a thrill from getting that report card every day from the customer. I think that's what drives people who want to be in retail, but it hasn't always loved people who look like me.
Bill Thorne: Mm-hmm <affirmative>.
Christiane Pendarvis: It hasn't always celebrated people who look like me.
Bill Thorne: Right.
Christiane Pendarvis: I do think you're seeing a pretty monumental shift. I think some of it is things like the success of Fenty Beauty, which revolutionized prestige cosmetics when it came out. They were the first one to be out there with 40 shades of foundation. You could have talked to every major cosmetics brand before. And they said, ‘We can't carry that many SKUs. The inventory inefficiency driven by that. That doesn't make any sense for us to invest in that.’ And then all of a sudden when a brand does and you see the response from a market that has not been served
Bill Thorne: Right.
Christiane Pendarvis: And it grows rapidly.
Bill Thorne: Right.
Christiane Pendarvis: Then everyone sort of falls in line. I think part of what's happened is people recognize now, there are untapped markets and if you're providing subpar product or experiences to these markets, you're missing an opportunity.
Bill Thorne: Right.
Christiane Pendarvis: When someone really sees and recognizes them and then develops product and an experience that reflects their reality, you're going to get loyalty and you're going to get higher share of their wallet. Which is going to be meaningful to the bottom line. I think there's some of that. There's obviously been backlash from people not getting it right. And sort of what that means.
Bill Thorne: Right.
Christiane Pendarvis: I've been pleased with what I've seen from major corporations committing to different types of initiatives to the transparency of diversity stats that have been published. Including things around pay equity, which are so important.
Bill Thorne: Right.
Christiane Pendarvis: Still work to be done, but I have definitely seen market improvement from when I first started in this industry.
Bill Thorne: That's awesome. I will close with this question. What's the best piece of career advice that you can give for those seeking to go into retail?
Christiane Pendarvis: Great question. I don’t know if this is unique to people going in retail, the best career advice I give people, well —two parts of course because I can only, I’m a progress person so I need to deliver results so I got to give you two. The first one is, be curious at all times. It’s one thing to have a plan or a hypothesis or a theory, you could be wrong. Be curious. That means be open to it being completely 180 degrees different than what you thought. Never miss an opportunity for learning. I’ve had great career experiences and I’ve had crappy career experiences and you can sometimes look at a crappy experience and say, ‘That was horrible. I got nothing out of that experience.’ And just walk away. There’s learning in every experience. Even if it was, ‘The reasons why this was crappy, I will never make those same decisions again or I’ll look at these criteria differently going forward,’ there is always an opportunity to learn. So be curious, don’t miss that opportunity.
I think the second thing would be, put points on the board in your job. You come into a new place, do your job well. Then the world becomes your oyster. Don’t come in and you know, you’re responsible for doing something in the supply chain but you have all these great ideas in marketing, over index your great ideas in marketing because no one’s going to listen to your great ideas in marketing until you’re doing your job in supply chain well, so put points on the board.
Bill Thorne: Oh, I could go on and go on.
Christiane Pendarvis: This has been fun.
Bill Thorne: You've just been fantastic and I've learned an awful lot. It's interesting to me because when we have these conversations, it's a great perspective. What you're doing is a lot for a brand that is growing and it's wonderful to see your ability to do that and be here sharing your thoughts. But, and not only that, you did the student program. I mean it, that's a lot. What'd you think about that? The student program?
Christiane Pendarvis: It was fantastic.
Bill Thorne: Isn't that fun?
Christiane Pendarvis: It was really fun. And when they asked me, I'll admit this and NRF people don't be mad at me when I say this. I thought, oh, it's like 50, 100 students in the student program. I was like, it is 1,000 students here.
Bill Thorne: I know.
Christiane Pendarvis: I wasn't fully prepared for that.
Bill Thorne: Yeah. The energy in that room, I love the student program. For us, as we're getting ready for the Big Show, the best dose of energy you can get is just to walk into that room and just talk to those kids and watch them and interact with them. It's absolutely glorious. What did you think about the Honors program last night?
Christiane Pendarvis: Oh, it was phenomenal.
Bill Thorne: It was good?
Christiane Pendarvis: It was phenomenal. I mean, Marvin Ellison is, oh my gosh, legendary. Again, an African American CEO of two major Iconic retailers, his kids and—
Bill Thorne: Yep.
Christiane Pendarvis: The beautiful words that they said about him and his own words.
Bill Thorne: Yep.
Christiane Pendarvis: He seems like a man who leads from a place of humility—
Bill Thorne: For sure.
Christiane Pendarvis: Honesty, transparency and it's phenomenal to see someone like that be as successful as he's been.
Bill Thorne: So you'll come back?
Christiane Pendarvis: Absolutely.
Bill Thorne: All right. Christiane Pendarvis, it has been such a pleasure talking with you.
Christiane Pendarvis: Thank you.
Bill Thorne: Thank you for joining us on Retail Gets Real and thank you all for listening to another episode of Retail Gets Real. You can find more information about this episode at retailgetsreal.com. I'm Bill Thorne from the Javits Center in New York City at 2023 NRF Big show. Until next time, thanks for listening.
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