Improving the front-line associate experience at PetSmart

Episode transcript, edited for clarity

Bill Thorne: Welcome to Retail Gets Real, where we hear from retail’s most fascinating leaders about the industry that impacts everyone, everywhere, every day. I am Bill Thorne from the National Retail Federation, and on today’s episode we’re talking to Theresa Lee. She’s Vice President, HR Talent, Culture and Strategy for PetSmart. We’re going to talk to Theresa about her journey, company culture, and how PetSmart has successfully revamped the front-line experience for its 50,000 plus associates.

Theresa, hello. Welcome.

Theresa Lee: Thank you for having me.

Thorne: So glad to have you here. We were talking earlier, before we started to record, about the size of the show. You’ve never been before?

Lee: Never. No.

Thorne: Can you tell people: Is it really a big show?

Lee: It’s really a big show. Yeah. I’ve got a lot of steps in already. The Starbucks line was quite long.

Lee: It’s a big show. There’s a lot of people, but the energy’s cool.

Thorne: Yeah, it is. And, and you know, that’s the one thing that we always talk about, because there’s a lot of work obviously that goes in to putting it together, putting it on, the days are long. But we always come back to the fact that it’s fun because of the energy …

Lee: Mm-hmmm.

Thorne: And the enthusiasm. And the other great thing, too, is if you’ve come for a few years, you get to know people, and the only time you see them is for three days in January at the Big Show. So, it’s kind of something to look forward to.

Lee: I actually saw that riding the escalator. There were people riding up and somebody riding down, and it’s like, ‘Hey John, I see you here.’ You can tell.

Thorne: Any who. So, tell me about the Theresa Lee journey. I mean, how did you get into retail — PetSmart? What, what brought you here?

Lee: Sure, sure. Maybe a little unconventional. I have not spent my entire career in retail. But, you know, when I was in high school and college, I worked at Starbucks for many, many years and got a nice appreciation for what it’s like to be on the front line. I think that’s — as we’ll talk about — I think that’s where I developed probably a lot of my passion for helping the front line.

And then, you know, I actually, right here in New York City, worked for a company called Thomson Reuters. So, I worked on the news and media side, not as a journalist, but that’s how I got into HR — recruiting for journalists, which was just about as fascinating as you can imagine — internationally.

So, I did that for a few years. Then my husband and I moved out to Phoenix and there’s a … you know, I, I went from working in the middle of, in the heart of Times Square to the desert, which was definitely a transition.

And I wanted to — I was working from home for a little while before it was cool, and I wanted to get back into the office, actually. And there were only a few companies — PetSmart is one of them, and another one called Republic Services, and a few more.

I ended up at Republic Services for nine years, which is a waste and recycling business. Again. Fascinating. But because there are two big players in, in Phoenix, it was, we traded a lot of talent and knew a lot of people and networked, and I knew that one day I would end up at PetSmart. Partially because I love animals. Always have, it’s always been part of who I am. I’ve always had pets, love pets. Big, small, doesn’t really matter. I think they truly do make us better people.

And then also, just the people there at PetSmart were just, as I met them, recruited them, whatever it was, I was like, ‘Yeah, there’s a lot of quality, quality people there.’

So, a little over two years ago, I made my way back into retail, leading our associate work experience at PetSmart, and I could not be happier. It was just the best decision I think I’ve ever made in my career so far. It’s fun. The energy in retail is a lot different than any other industry I’ve been in, so I’m finding it.

Thorne: Yeah, retail is, I mean, unlike anything else, you know, we talk about energy, we talk about change. You’re always challenged. Something’s always going on. You come in one day and you’re doing something, you come in the next day, you’re doing something else. I think that’s what I really enjoy about it. What’s, what is the company culture of PetSmart?

Lee: The first word that comes to mind is certainly fun. It is fun. It’s fun, you know, I work at the home office in Phoenix and there are pets all over the place.

Thorne: I love that.

Lee: It’s cool. It’s very cool. It’s funny how attached you get to other coworkers’ pets. Like when you see them in the hallway, you’re like, ‘You’re my best friend. How did I live this long without seeing you? It’s been a week.’ You know? They feel like they’re yours to a certain degree. So definitely fun.

Another thing that, another word that comes to mind to me is inclusive. Pets have this way of being this incredible, like, great equalizer. So, it’s really cool. It doesn’t matter what level you are in the organization, you know, you see a cute puppy, you’re on the floor with that puppy and you’re petting them. So there’s this great equalizing benefit to having pets around and having the business be around pets. So, definitely, uh, drives inclusivity.

Furry would be another, furry or scaly or you know, whatever word you might want to use to describe the pets.

Thorne: So, you have all kinds of pets?

Lee: We do.

Thorne: So, you, somebody’s going to bring in their kitty cats, somebody’s going to bring in their puppy dog, somebody’s going to bring in …

Lee: Rats.

Thorne: OK. Alright. Well, I was going for bunny.

Lee: Scorpions, spiders.

Thorne: No.

Lee: I’m not kidding.

Thorne: Really?

Lee: For real. Yeah. Spiders. Spiders. Yeah. It’s not for everyone.

Thorne: You had me until spiders, probably. I could have probably even dealt with rats, but …

Lee: It’s mainly dogs.

Thorne: I hope so. So, the culture is inclusive, and to your point, I mean, honestly, pets really are, animals are the great equalizer. So, if you were to define not only the culture, but the experience of working at PetSmart, what to you is the highlight? Is it the people? Is it … sometimes, you know, it is easier to work with pets than it is with people, but, how is, how does that really balance out?

Lee: I think, you know, what it’s really like to work there is: It is a retail environment, right? So, you do have what you were talking about before: Every day is a new day, there’s a new challenge, there’s something else that you’ve got to go figure out. So, it’s all of those elements of retail.

It’s hard to explain, though, what bringing pets into that … . I’ll put it this way — it’s rare that you have a passion like pets that you can share with your customer base. And, it’s out there, we’re not the only, you know, shop in retail that has that. But it’s, you know, we’re so passionate about pets, and pet parents are so passionate about their pets. So, there’s just something about that instant connection that you get to make with each other and with pet parents that’s truly special. It’s unique, I believe, to us. Yeah.

Thorne: So, when you are hiring for somebody to work at PetSmart, I mean, you’ve got to make sure that they’re not allergic to … cats, dogs, rats, spiders …

Lee: You know, they kind of tend to self-select that part out. We don’t deal with that too much. But yeah.

Thorne: So, what do you look for in a person that you hire?

Lee: Sure. So, I think (I mean, I know it sounds obvious), but a love of pets is necessary for sure.

Thorne: No allergies.

Lee: Yeah, if you’re allergic, you’re going to struggle a little bit. You’re going to take some extra medicine, I guess.

But if you’re — you know, if you don’t have that passion, it’s not going to be for you, more, more likely than not. And because there are live pets in our stores, that creates a whole other … as crazy as retail can be for any retailer, having to make sure that we take the best possible care of our pets, that that are in our care. We care for… over nine million pets a year, across the chain, so …

Thorne: Wow. I mean, nine million?

Lee: Mm-hmm.

Thorne: That’s almost mind boggling.

Lee: It is. Yeah.

Thorne: I mean, I, I think about just my one dog …

Lee: Yes. Mm-hmm.

Thorne: … and all the work that’s involved with that. Wow. Nine million.

Lee: So, it’s … .You know, and they’re often, you know … . If you think about a grooming salon, right? There’s six pets in the grooming salon at one time, right? They don’t know each other. So, all of that energy, you kind of got to….

It’s a special type of person who can have that love of pets be at the forefront of what they’re, you know, how they’re operating every single day, and keeping calm and making sure that it’s, you know, a great experience. It’s the experience that the pets deserve and it’s the experience that the pet parents deserve.

Thorne: So, how did … but I mean … when you, when you look at somebody and you’re trying to, you know, find that top talent, how do you measure success?

Lee: Really good question. Top talent tends to be attracted to us. You know, we do, I, I’ve probably been stopped just walking down this long hallway three or four times, like, ‘Oh, you’re with PetSmart? What’s it like?’ Right? Because of the pets. You know, and, and whatever people might think it, it’s like to work in an environment that is so connected to pets, it really is. It, it draws people to you, which is a huge benefit that we have, I would say, in our talent attraction strategy.

But then, you know, the strategy only works if the, if … you know, again, we’re just like any other retailer where we have to make sure we’re differentiated in some way and we’ve got people walking in our door. And really what our mission is, is to create more fulfilled lives for the pet parents and the pets. So, when you’re talking about attracting top talent, that impact that they get to make on people’s lives and pet’s lives is, you know, it, it makes the talent attraction part work.

And then how do you measure success? Are we doing that? Are we doing that regularly? Are we doing that successfully? Are there, you know — the amount of stories and the amount of customers that we have coming back telling us about, you know, ‘Wow. You know, Daisy was in your salon, and you called us right away when there was a problem, and you took care of them like they were your own.’ Right? Like, those types of stories that we get to hear, tell us that we are hiring the right people who put the passion for the pets first and the people that go along with them.

Thorne: So, you should know that my first dog, my first dog ever in my life, and as an adult, I went out and I went to a PetSmart where there was an Adopt-A-Dog day — not with the idea that I was going to walk out with the dog — I walked out with a dog. His name was Louis. I think that one of the things in terms of building loyalty, PetSmart facilitated my meeting and adopting Louis, so in response to that, my loyalty to was to PetSmart. Building loyalty … I mean, that’s got to be a huge cornerstone to the business.

Lee: Oh, it’s huge. It’s a huge differentiator for us. Whether it’s the adopting events, whether it’s the care they get in the salon. I mean, we have trainers, right? So, we have people who are literally helping you keep that … because having a pet isn’t always easy. I’m sure everybody can agree. There are good days. There are bad days.

But, you know, our mission to help those more fulfilled lives happen between pets and their pet parents means that training is a really big deal for us. You know, come see us if you aren’t having the best experience so that we can help you. You know, and that’s really where the mission and the rubber meets the road, where it’s like, ‘Man, that pet got to stay in that home because we helped them communicate better and understand each other better.’

Thorne: Well, it’s wonderful too, because when you take the dog back in for grooming or whatever, you have a, there’s a relationship there, and they kind of look forward to it. I mean, I get the dog out of the car, tail’s wagging, let’s go, pulling, you know, let’s go to the door. I think I’m always like, ‘Don’t give him too many treats.’

Lee: Well, and speaking of talent, right? A lot of people do get attached to the groomer. Or the trainer, or whomever it might be that’s taking care of their pets. So, they might love PetSmart, which we love, but they also love, you know, Joe, who has been their groomer for the last six years. If Joe ever went anywhere, we’d be in trouble, so we have to retain Joe.

Thorne: Yeah, that’s a big part of it. You know, I can definitely see that because, you know, we’ve had to have dog walkers through the years. My gosh, do they get attached. And it’s the dog walker to the dog, the dog to the dog walker, the owners to the dog walker. So, the dog walker is very, very important. So yeah, those Christmas tips were always very, very good.

Lee: yes, I’m sure.

Thorne: So now your session here at Big Show is about PetSmart successfully revamping the front-line experience. Can you give us some examples of how you redefined the front-line experience to make it better for the employees?

Lee: Absolutely. I think my best piece of advice here is to listen to your associates. If you think you’re listening to your associates — you may or may not be, you know? I would always double check because there’s a lot of unintended friction that’s caused by — whether it’s a home office or corporate, whatever you want to call it — the best intentions sometimes have downstream impacts to associates that you don’t necessarily understand or realize might be happening.

And so, we’ve put a huge effort over the last two years to really understand what it is that keeps our associates happy, that removes the friction from their day-to-day. So, we’ve started a program called Voice of the Associate that helps us. I mean, we go around the country, we go into nondescript hotel conference rooms all over the country, and we just pull associates in and say, ‘Tell us what’s working, tell us what’s not.’

And we take those learnings, and we apply them back to our home office. So, it goes both ways, right? You can’t just learn what it is that’s not working or what is working. You also have to pull that back into your home office and help that team understand what the impact of their decisions might be, and how to readjust so that the associates really feel heard, and that overall we’re making it better for our customers, for our associates, for everybody.

Because our associates are asking for things — when you really, you know, say, ‘Hey, what’s not working?’ — they’re asking for things that are very operational in nature, right? They’re not saying like, ‘Man, it would be great if we could have X, Y, Z benefit,’ or, you know, have pizza for lunch every day. Like if that’s what you think it is, it’s not that, right? It’s ‘Help me have a grooming salon that can operate better so that when I leave work, I’m not stressed.’ Right? I can leave work at work, I can go home and not think about it.

So, you know, all of the — we’ve been doing that, like I said, about two years now and the impact to our associates has been incredible. And the impact to the people who make those policies or procedures or whatever has also been great because they’ve got this great, you know, kind of constant loop of feedback that comes in, and so if you’re not doing that with your associates, you have to, because it just makes everything run more smoothly.

And then the other thing that I’m here at the Big Show talking about is our evolution in communication. Communication with front-line associates — it’s hard — doesn’t matter if you have 10,000, 50,000, 100,000. It’s hard. Especially when they don’t have email addresses. So, we implemented an app, called Central Bark.

Thorne: Of course.

Lee: Of course it is. It’s amazing. Man, our internal communications and visual team just knocked it out of the park. But really, what it does is it puts, you know, on a mobile app, whether it’s a store-owned mobile app or an associate-owned mobile app, right at their fingertips — all company news, resources, all the things that they need to know. It’s not necessary for their job. It’s optional. But we’ve got about 70% of our associates on it now, which is pretty incredible, and we launched less than a year ago.

And the thing is … I was talking so much about our culture before. Our culture really is special and what our associates love about Central Bark is that it created this community where they got to suddenly be connected to all the salon associates or all the pet care associates or all the cashiers, right? The people who are their network outside of their store and they share ideas and collaborate and ask questions and troubleshoot. It’s pretty incredible. They recognize … it’s been really, really cool to be able to get feedback and communicate about what we’ve learned, and what we’re doing differently. And it’s really having a really interesting impact on just our associates’ happiness at work.

Thorne: You know, in order to do something like that, you have to have a willingness — and I don’t even know if it’s a willingness — it’s kind of a, a philosophical bent, which is to say, ‘We need to engage. We need to be engaged. Our associates, our front-line associates mean so much to the success of our business.’ And, so that all falls into leadership. So, what would be your leadership philosophy?

Lee: My personal leadership philosophy is pretty simple. Number one, there are things that people are naturally talented at. You know, a lot of people tend to focus on, like, what are my weaknesses and how do I make my weaknesses better? I tend to lean toward: What are your strengths and how do you get even better at your strengths?

So, one, I like to place talent where they’re naturally talented. And that doesn’t mean that they have to stay in one lane or stay in one function or anything along those lines. It’s just, what are you naturally good at? Are you a naturally good public speaker? Great. Let’s put you in opportunities where you get to do that a lot. Are you naturally good at getting to the root cause of problems? Great. Let’s put you in situations where you get to do that a lot. Are you a naturally good project manager? Great, right?

Some things, in my opinion … I’m never going to be a great coder. Right? That’s not me, so, so if you were to say like, ‘Well, we think you had … ’ Nope, I don’t have that. So, don’t put me in that. Right? So, number one, I think where you’re naturally talented, go toward that. So, I try and place people who have those natural, intrinsic talents into roles where they get to shine.

Set a true north. I think that’s a big, you know, leadership competency that’s really, really important. I’ve worked in environments certainly where I didn’t know which way was up. You know, I didn’t know which, what are we solving for today? And, by the way, what are we solving for — one day when somebody’s giving my eulogy, somebody will say, ‘That is what Theresa said all the time is: What are we solving for here?’ So the … my team knows it well. Oh, if I can’t, if, if we can’t answer that question, what are we doing, right? What are we solving for?

Thorne: No, I love it. I agree with it. We ask that question all the time.

Lee: You have to. You have to. You have to be grounded in what is important and why you’re solving it. So, I believe a leader’s responsibility, and certainly what I do for my team is, you know, make sure that they know what the true north is, they know what we’re solving for. And then you just let your talented people do it, right? You don’t prescribe it for them. So, you’ve put people where they, you know, are naturally talented and naturally going to perform. You’ve set a true north, now let them go be creative. Right? Don’t, don’t micromanage at that point. Let them go be creative and do cool things.

Thorne: You know, I love that philosophy and I love that leadership. You know, when you walk around the Big Show, especially this year, I think one thing that you’re going to see a lot of are vendors that are talking about AI. And that’s, you know, everywhere from the Innovation Lab to the main floor, to the Center of the Plate, our food pavilion. So, how is AI impacting your job as an HR professional?

Lee: Good question. You know, we don’t right now use a ton of AI in our practices. So, I was … in preparing for this, I was like, ‘Huh, am I missing something? Are we, are we using it anywhere?’ We’re not today. What I think though … what I wonder about AI and what I’m interested in learning about AI is how it helps us get to more creative solutions. I think there’s really something to be learned about, and I don’t know if now is the time. Like, if AI can do that for us right this moment, or if it’s going to take a few years. I don’t know. But I do wonder if, you know, machine learning gets to a place where it’s just an endless amount of, you know, creative ideas that you get to draw from, and have some fun with. I don’t know.

But we don’t use it today. The closest we really get to AI is assessments. You know, assessments help us figure out, like … you know, not everybody should get the privilege of working with pets. So …

Thorne: For sure, that.

Lee: So, with that being said, you know, we want to make sure we’re hiring people who should be working with pets. So that — it tends to come in a little bit there. But that’s not really AI. It’s more so just making sure that, you know, we’ve got some computer helping us figure out what’s, what’s good and what’s not.

Thorne: You know, AI … it’s such a …  I am really trying to get my head around it on behalf of my team, and on behalf of our brand, and obviously the industry and helping to do our jobs better. And I’m learning a lot along the way. And yet — I just know it, it seems to me like we’re in the early days of the internet, and what is the capabilities and how is it going to help me? I don’t know, but I know that it will. I’m just not sure how

Lee: Exactly. You know, my husband — not in retail, although he did have a retail career — you know, he wrote a book. Yeah, he wrote a children’s book. He used AI to help him figure out some of his marketing. You know, it’s like, he can write a book all day, but the second he’s got to get out there and figure out how to market it? Not his skillset. So, he, you know … so I do know that there are uses for it. And I feel the same way, like early days of the internet. What is this frontier that we’re about to embark on? What happens? So, I think it’s exciting.

Thorne: We’ve talked a lot about talent and I think there’s a period of time, and we may still be in that period of time where getting really good talent has been not the easiest thing. What can retailers do to attract, and more importantly, I think — I think I know the answer to this because I think you’re doing it with the app — but what can they do to attract and retain good talent?

Lee: Yeah. So again, starting with listening to your associates and what’s really going to remove the friction from their day to day. You just … you don’t want them to walk away frustrated, right? That’s the really big deal there.

I think investing in your talent’s a big deal too. So, if it’s not clear what a career path looks like to get from a cashier to a store leader or from a store leader into a home office position or something, if that’s not clear, then people are going to find that elsewhere. So, you have to have some intention behind your strategy there.

I think another one that hopefully a lot of retailers are doing already — we certainly have a big culture of it at PetSmart — is recognition. Our associates tell us that, actually. When we measure what is retaining them, they like being recognized for doing good work. So, that’s not gone away. Certainly, in this environment, in any environment.

I think schedules is an interesting one, too. We hear a lot about schedules. The reason it’s interesting (and maybe I’ll come back on your podcast one day if I ever figure it out), but the reason that it’s interesting to me is, it’s like this dichotomy of, they want flexibility in a post-COVID world. But they also want predictability of their schedules. And so, finding that in a retail environment and making that a consistent experience for your associates — really difficult. But that’s what they’re asking for from us. So, if anybody, anybody out there has cracked that code …

Thorne: There’s a lot of people working on it because it is a big issue.

Lee: It’s a big issue. Yeah. But that’s what they tell us about. But if you can do those things, you know. But especially though, like, seeing that path.

Thorne: And helping them not only see it, but to navigate it. And to, you know, plan accordingly. I want to know two things. We’ll close with these two things. One is: What excites you most about the future of retail? And then I’m going to follow that up with one last question, which will be: What was the best career advice you’ve ever received?

Lee: Sure. So as far as what’s exciting to me about retail is: I think associates and customers are raising the bar for companies, so I’m excited to see who rises to the occasion and how they do it. It’s going to require creativity. It’s going to require new ways of thinking. It’s going to require, you know, all the things that people are here to learn at NRF, right? It’s going to require just that visioning that, if you’re not doing it now, you know, you’ll get left in the dust. So, I think I’m excited to see what comes of that or what’s coming of that and learning from others. Um, and I’m excited for us to do it at PetSmart. So that’s what’s exciting to me.

As far as the best career advice that I ever received. Have you ever heard of a growth mindset?

Thorne: I don’t know that I have.

Lee: Okay. Growth mindset. It’s all about knowing that trying something — and I’ll put it this way. One, a boss of mine once said … I was real frustrated, right? I was real frustrated. I felt like I wasn’t making a big enough impact. I couldn’t connect to my work in a way that, like … I didn’t feel like I was getting far enough fast enough.

And she goes, ‘Theresa, did you ever stop and just look in the rearview mirror and see the path that you’ve paved? I know you’re seeing the rocky road ahead. But did you ever look to see the path that you paved so that you can conquer that rocky road that’s ahead of you?’ And I was like, ‘Oh, well, that’s a nice way of looking at it.”

And she introduced me to the growth mindset. Which is essentially: If you’re ever feeling like, you know, you’re just not there yet, or you’re not going as fast as you want to, or you want to do more, than, you know, than you’re doing today. Just adopt the word yet into your vocabulary. ‘I’m not where I want to be,’ or ‘I’m not where I want to be yet.’

So that is … it has stuck with me. It stays with me. I tell everybody who wants to know: Adopt a growth mindset. You really free yourself from a lot of, you know, the constraints. And it’s, it’s pretty cool what it can do for you. It’s simple, too.

Thorne: I think, I think it’s absolutely fantastic. And yesterday we were talking to Michelle Gass, and we were talking literally about how, how today you find this impatience. This lack of patience. And people just want to be there. Wherever they want to be, they just want to be there. And so, they’re very impatient. And so, I think that it’s a great way to kind of address that is by saying: ‘comma, yet.’ I, I think that makes a lot of sense.

Lee: It’s a hack. It’s a great hack. Everybody should use it.

Thorne: Theresa Lee, it has been a distinct pleasure having this opportunity to talk to you today on Retail Gets Real.

Lee: Thank you so much for having me.

Thorne: I hope you enjoy the Big Show.

Lee: I am. I will.

Thorne: Well, I’m looking forward to hearing how your session went, and I’m looking forward to having you back next year. I think you’re going to enjoy it. And thank you all for listening to another episode of Retail Gets Real. You can find more information about this episode and others at retail gets real dot com.

I’m Bill Thorne. This is Retail Gets Real from the heart of the Javits Center in New York City. Thanks for listening. Until next time.