NRF 2025 preview: Big things are coming to Retail’s Big Show

Episode transcript, edited for clarity

[00:00:44] Bill Thorne: Welcome to Retail Gets Real, where we hear from retail's most fascinating leaders about the industry that impacts everyone, everywhere, and every day. I'm Bill Thorne from the National Retail Federation, and on today's episode, we're talking to NRF Senior Vice President of Content Jill Dvorak.

We're counting down the days to NRF 2025, taking place in New York City this January 12th through the 14th. And today, Jill's going to share a preview of what's to come at Retail's Big Show. Jill Dvorak, welcome to Retail Gets Real.

[00:01:18] Jill Dvorak: Thank you, Bill. It is wonderful to be back with you, getting excited for this show, and just a couple of more days now.

[00:01:26] Bill Thorne: Yes, it seems that way, doesn't it? It's coming so fast this year. Is it earlier? Are we doing it earlier? Is it usually later?

[00:01:33] Jill Dvorak: We are because it's usually Martin Luther King weekend, which is the third Monday of every January. And this year it's really the second week. So yeah, we've lost a week of prep time, but don't worry. Everything will be great.

[00:01:45] Bill Thorne: I'm sure it will. And we're going to talk about how great it's going to be. I just got to say, Jill, we were talking a little bit before we started the program that you are a charter, if not founding guest on Retail Gets Real back in the olden days where we did this from a studio out in Arlington and you were at National Geographic.

[00:02:05] Jill Dvorak: I was. I was a retailer for about 22 years. So now I'm a recovering retailer. My heart, every Monday morning, there's a little bit of that, “Oh, what is the dashboard going to say?” And then a little bit of relief that I'm now on the side where I get to help lots of retailers and not just one, but yeah.

[00:02:23] Bill Thorne: When I took the job, I'd been with the one brand, and all I cared about was the one brand. I really didn't care about anybody else, what they were doing, how they were doing it, what they were thinking, saying. It was really what we needed to do in order to meet customer demand.

And having gone to the NRF, you get that perspective much more broadly, and you do care about what others are doing. And it's a wonderful experience. Now, all that being said, tell us a little bit about your experience at the Big Show through the years as a retailer, and now with NRF. Do you have any special memories?

[00:02:56] Jill Dvorak: That's a great question. Yeah. I think the first year I was there as a retailer we had a former president up on stage. We had Bush up on stage, and it was really, really incredible.

And honestly, just walking around, and I got to go backstage, and I got to meet him, and it was like, this show is so much bigger than I thought. I would go, and I'd meet with my five or 10 vendors that I needed to shop for technology, and I had a very pointed agenda. And then once I grew in my career, I realized you can just go and walk around for three days.

You could never talk to everybody. And having some agenda, but really being able to just network and walk around, that is really where the unlock came for the show for me, where you never knew who you're going to run into, what country they're from, what background they have. And a lot of our keynotes are walking around on the floor, too.

So that was the unlock of getting — each level in your career, you're looking for something different from different shows, and you're always looking for technology, always looking for the right partner. You're always looking to learn. But going around the floor and just talking to people, that was a really — it just became so much more meaningful than the LinkedIn's right away. And you get this network that you then count on seeing every single year there.

So I think this is probably my 12th or 13th show in total — I think three or four as a retailer and now six, seven as an employee. And I will say, as tiring as it is to be on the retailer end, it is actually more tiring on the employee end.

[00:04:36] Bill Thorne: Make no mistake about it.

[00:04:38] Jill Dvorak: No mistake about it. But this year's theme being “game changer” is really what I think the industry is going through right now. And we pick these themes. Look, we were on a call today for a theme over a year out from now. We pick these themes 13, 14 months out at least. And you can be right most of the time, but this year, “game changer.”

With what's going on, both macroeconomic and microeconomic in different communities, so much turbulence in retail. And this is really, really a good year for a theme like this. It's shaking everything up, but at the same point when it settles out, that's where people want to know. Where is it settling? How is it settling?

And that's really how we're planning the content. It's how are you reacting to these changes? What have you done with similar changes, and what can we all learn collectively if we're not the number one or the number two in retail? What can all retailers learn? So that's more than just my history at the show, but that's what this year people will be able to take away.

[00:05:46] Bill Thorne: Yeah. And it is a big show. I remember when I first started, and I know listeners who've been listening for a while have heard me say this before, but I started in June, so everybody would be talking about the Big Show in January. It's like, look, I've been to conventions, I know big shows. What are you talking about? Oh my God, it was unbelievable. And I think back then the show was probably a third of what it is today.

[00:06:10] Jill Dvorak: We didn't have the North Concourse then. Yeah, we didn't even [Inaudible].

[00:06:12] Bill Thorne: Yeah, it's unbelievable. So anyway, it is a big show. And being so big, what is something that you've learned, being on the inside of the show planning, that attendees should be fascinated to know?

[00:06:27] Jill Dvorak: It's a great question. We have all these crazy stats of how many people and the rigging and the meters that we hang of signs. I actually just learned this year, we actually start set-up the week of Christmas. We have people in the Javits Center rigging things, getting things set up.

I knew we went a week early or so, but three or four weeks early? We're really taking over the convention center for a month. That really blew me away. I didn't realize just how involved the setup is. And that's not even the stages or the innovation lab. That's just the physical riggings. Just to get everything hung up. So that was really interesting. Every staff member knows that if you don't wear, I'm going to say, comfortable shoes, but wear —

[00:07:15] Bill Thorne: Rubber soles.

[00:07:17] Jill Dvorak: Rubber soles. That is it. You can't wear a shoe like a loafer. No, no, no. It is cement through and through. There is a very thin layer of carpet, and you will be walking — I believe the Javits length now is something around eight city blocks.

[00:07:33] Bill Thorne: Yeah, it's huge.

[00:07:34] Jill Dvorak: So if you walk one into the other three or four times back and forth to content —

[00:07:37] Bill Thorne: And you do.

[00:07:39] Jill Dvorak: You'll have 20,000 steps before the day is done easily. So rubber shoes. A big change we made this year just in trying to be more sustainable, because it is such a gigantic show with more than 40,000 people there, is really having water stations instead of water bottles. And most people carry around a water bottle, but bring a water bottle this year.

That is a huge tip because there really won't be a lot to buy in terms of water, and you don't have to wait in lines and things that way. But layers, some parts of the Javits will always be freezing and some parts you will think you're going through the change at the other end of the hallway. Maybe that's me. But knowing that you will be hot and cold, knowing your cell phone will run down right away because everyone else is on — so bring a battery pack for your cell phone. Those are some of the external things. Inside, we have close to — gosh, I think, I want to pull up my number so I say the right thing — 450 speakers.

[00:08:43] Bill Thorne: Wow.

[00:08:43] Jill Dvorak: Just under 200 sessions. So from an insider perspective, honestly, the best way to make an agenda is download the app and then add them to your calendar. Just add those sessions because otherwise you don't pre-plan. It can be 15-20 minutes walking one end to the other. So allow yourself the time and allow yourself the grace to — God forbid you need to go to the restroom. So give yourself time to get places.

I think there's nothing worse than running around and not knowing where you're going. The app has maps, which are really, really helpful, and I think those are incredibly valuable to be able to get around.

[00:09:23] Bill Thorne: And using the app, incredibly important to help you plan your day. So Big Show coming up. Game changer. Besides game changer, what are the major themes we're going to be hearing about during the show this year?

[00:09:37] Jill Dvorak: A lot of it is scaling. A lot of people had really interesting ideas in the last couple of years of how to capture the new consumer, the younger consumer. But we focused a lot on trying to get CEOs and C-suites of brands who have been able to scale those. Having a good idea and having the right technology is enough of an issue.

But if you can do that and then scale them to not only bring, whether it's personalization, whether it's community features, but to be able to do that locally, nationally and globally. So one, I'm really excited about Calvin McDonald, who's the CEO of Lululemon. They've done a phenomenal job in general innovation, both digitally and in their stores and also in scaling their community offerings.

Lots of, whether it's yoga classes in studio, whether it's partnerships with certain brand ambassadors for other products. They've done a really, really good job of keeping it local and making you feel valued, but then also bringing it to the digital and the international scale as well.

So that's a theme that we're going to see a lot. Another is doubling down on the basics. Mary Dillon is coming. She's the CEO of Foot Locker. Foot Locker has had a few ups and downs, but what happened in their terms is they got away from some of their main customer focus.

And she's doubling down on that, and she's done that before in her career and really coming back and just focusing, picking a few priorities, picking basketball, really focusing in on that. And picking the one or two that are really important to your customer and just doubling, tripling down. We see these shiny objects constantly. Last year was a metaverse.

This year, everyone's talking GenAI and all these things. That's wonderful, but you got to take care of your house first. If you don't have a clean email list, if you don't have data hygiene and all of your privacy rules in place, all of those really fancy add-ons aren't as valuable as they could be.

A lot of it is getting back to basics and really excelling at that and then just generally leadership through these times that are confusing and sometimes a little upsetting for all sorts of reasons. I think getting those people who can really lead through that and motivate teams through that, both domestically and globally, those will be some of our themes that hopefully everyone can take something away from.

[00:12:08] Bill Thorne: The themes I have a feeling we're going to be hearing a lot about AI this year.

[00:12:15] Jill Dvorak: Absolutely.

[00:12:16] Bill Thorne: A lot. I actually almost made it through one entire episode of Retail Gets Real with a guest without ever using those two letters of the alphabet, and then it was right in the last, I think it was the last question I asked. Sure enough, it came up to the top.

And so anyway, I just have to believe everybody's talking about it. So we're going to get a lot of really good insight and feedback in terms of what it means for the consumer, what it means for the industry. OK, so you talked about a couple — Calvin used to be on our — did you know that he was on our board of directors at one time?

[00:12:48] Jill Dvorak: When was that?

[00:12:48] Bill Thorne: When he was with his other brand.

[00:12:51] Jill Dvorak: Ah. Well, we've chased him and Mary Dillon for quite some time, so we're very excited to have them both.

[00:12:56] Bill Thorne: He's great. He's not only a good leader. He's just a really good guy. So those are two. But who are some of the other keynote speakers?

[00:13:05] Jill Dvorak: Some other keynotes we have, sticking with the shoe theme for a minute, we have Joe Preston, who is the CEO of New Balance, which really was the dad shoe for a little while. But I don't know what's cooler now than a dad shoe. Everything old is new again. That's another theme that we go out.

We have Peter Nordstrom. He's coming on stage with the CEO of Burberry, Joshua Schulman. They're doing a discussion about really what is the vision for a luxury brand like Burberry in the future? Luxury finally got hit, but it was imperceptibly not getting hit for years and years. And how do you lead a brand through that, and a global brand at that?

[00:13:53] Bill Thorne: I don't want you to lose your train of thought, but Burberry or Burberry?

[00:13:59] Jill Dvorak: Phenomenal question.

[00:14:00] Bill Thorne: Because I think you said it right. I think I always say it wrong. I'm from the South.

[00:14:05] Jill Dvorak: Well, you say it with a British accent. So however you say it with a British accent is right.  Burberry,  Burberry.

[00:14:11] Bill Thorne: So I'm going to the Burberry store.

[00:14:12] Jill Dvorak: Burberry. I'd be remiss if I did not say, obviously the chair of our board, John Furner, Walmart president and CEO. We also have the CEO of Amazon's stores, Doug Herrington, coming on. So we've got one and two right up there on stage, which will be really, really interesting conversations. We have Corie Barry, the CEO of Best Buy. Who else do we have? Man, we have A-Rod.

[00:14:41] Bill Thorne: Mm-mm.

[00:14:42] Jill Dvorak: Just casual multi —

[00:14:45] Bill Thorne: Just hitting the stage, talking about things. He's had a lot in leadership lately, though. He's doing everything.

[00:14:53] Jill Dvorak: Everything. And these brands that are being started now by celeb or athlete turned celeb, etc., they're some of the biggest brands out there. And how do you be involved but also not lose sight of the fact that he's probably running four or five other businesses, his whole investment portfolio?

[00:15:10] Bill Thorne: Yeah, for sure.

[00:15:12] Jill Dvorak: Yeah, we have some great ones. AG1's CEO Kat Cole, Sara Foster from Favorite Daughter. Really, really cool, hip brand. Sephora CEO Artemis Patrick, which every, well, men and women, but every girl under the age of 12 is asking for a Sephora gift card.

[00:15:32] Bill Thorne: Yeah. Sephora's big these days.

[00:15:36] Jill Dvorak: Unbelievable. And they do so many things so incredibly well. Their loyalty program is bar none. Their sampling program, really just unbelievable. And they launch a lot of brands as well from them. Real commitment to diversity and inclusion of brands that are not necessarily represented on other big shelves, and they help launch them.

I do want to highlight one session that is not a keynote, but it's going to be a phenomenal session. It's Tuesday at 11:20, and it's a session called Point Counterpoint. We're pitting two, I'm just going to call them, digital brains for lack of a better word, but we are pairing Jason “Retailgeek” Goldberg up against Christine Russo from RCCA.

And we have come up with a list of about 15 topics, and we're going to let the audience pick what topics they hit, and they're going to argue these points. So one might be GenAI, hip or hype, and they have to argue it. So we're trying to experiment with some new ways of getting content out there. And making it a little more exciting for the people two, three days in, let's keep the energy up from stage. So I'm excited to see things like that and see what the audience thinks.

[00:16:46] Bill Thorne: I'm really looking forward to that because I've seen Jason do that before. I think Jason just loves to be provocative, and he's love very good at it.

[00:16:58] Jill Dvorak: He's so good at it.

[00:16:58] Bill Thorne: So that should be a great, great session.

[00:16:59] Jill Dvorak: And he's very nervous, so if everyone can come. And I might have a prop of some Google glasses for everybody when they walk in, if everyone wants to come to that. So there's going to be incredible sessions. Another tip on the app is, search a word or a phrase you're interested in.

If you're interested in technology, you're interested in marketing, you’re interested in leadership, pick a keyword and then the sessions will come up that will be more tailored to — you could not possibly attend every session. There's too many at one time. Make the program work for you. And I think that's how people will get the best use of their time.

[00:17:36] Bill Thorne: Cool. So we just got the high sign, but I did want to ask, and I think it's important to get a perspective, what are you looking forward to most at NRF 2025?

[00:17:50] Jill Dvorak: Honestly, I am so excited just to look out in the audience and hopefully see emotion and head nods. There's nothing better when you piece together content and you look out and — you don't necessarily want people crying. You don't want too high or too low, but connecting with the speaker and nodding and empathizing.

That, to me, tells us we did a good job. We hit some of the right marks. And there's no better feeling than that, and there's no better feeling than people saying, "Hey, I met this partner at your show," and they've changed your business. Those stories, those matchmaking stories, it's real business, and it's real people doing this business. And if you can impact that, I don't think there's anything really better than that.

[00:18:34] Bill Thorne: I love also, Jill, just watching people during the content, whether it's on the main stage or feature stage, sitting there with their notebooks, taking notes. I think that what we're doing is we're providing them with something they wouldn't have had otherwise, something that they can apply to their business to help them achieve the success that they're seeking. And I think that is one of the most beautiful things about the Big Show, is giving people that opportunity.

[00:18:59] Jill Dvorak: I do tell the speakers that. You're exactly right. I say, if you're putting a slide up there, which is fine, but it cannot be a nothing burger. It has to be a slide someone's going to pull out their phone and take a picture of.

[00:19:08] Bill Thorne: Yeah, a lot of that going on.

[00:19:10] Jill Dvorak: That's how we know that people are engaged with a slide. It can be a graph. Put something on there. So exactly, yeah, no nothing-burger slides.

[00:19:19] Bill Thorne: Well, Jill Dvorak, as always, it has been a distinct pleasure talking with you as not only my colleague, but also my very good friend.

[00:19:29] Jill Dvorak: Bill, this is so much fun. We could do it for another 20 minutes, but hopefully people will take away that this is a place not only they need to be, but they want to be.

[00:19:39] Bill Thorne: I have absolutely no doubt. And thank you all for listening to another episode of Retail Gets Real. You can find more information about this episode at retail gets real dot com. Also, make sure to look up the Big Show. Just Google NRF Big Show. You're going to be amazed with what you find. I'm Bill Thorne. This is Retail Gets Real. Thanks for listening. Until next time.