Staying close to the customer with Pete Nordstrom

Retail Gets Real Episode 301: How Nordstrom keeps pace with change while holding strong to core values
Sheryll Poe
NRF Contributor

Pete Nordstrom was born into retail. The president and chief brand officer of Nordstrom Inc. began his career in the stockroom of his family’s downtown Seattle store and has held many positions throughout the company, including a very brief stint at one of the original Nordstrom cafés.

The Nordy Pod

Explore episdoes of "The Nordy Pod," hosted by Pete Nordstrom.

“For some reason [my father] took me to our café here in the store, and my job was to peel potatoes for the clam chowder,” the fourth-generation retailer shared during the latest episode of Retail Gets Real. “I did that one day. I must not have been very good at it.”

The retail landscape has changed quite a bit since John W. Nordstrom co-founded the store in 1901, and especially over the last few decades, Nordstrom said.

“If I think back on being in this business, say from when I was 18 until I was 40, it didn't change very much. What changed was the stuff we bought as fashion trends and cycles and things like that changed,” he said. “It really wasn't until technology really started coming along and online shopping became a thing that it really turned the whole thing upside down and just changed the whole proposition.”

Nordstrom has seen key shifts in retail business models, not just in the online aspect of the business, but in terms of the brands the retailer works with as well. “We used to do all our business with brands that were wholesalers, and we were retailers, and they were separate and different things,” he said. “But now every wholesaler is also a retailer. They can sell direct to customers, and they have stores … .  So all that has changed dramatically.”

Nordstrom explores those shifts and shares behind-the-scenes leadership stories in his year-old podcast, The Nordy Pod. “It felt like something we could try and could do without breaking the bank as a way of creating another connection point with customers by giving them some insight to how we do things,” he said. He recorded a special live episode of The Nordy Pod with Tom Ford International Chairman Domenico De Sole at NRF 2023: Retail’s Big Show in New York City.

Listen to the full episode of Retail Gets Real to hear more from Nordstrom about growing up in the family business, how the retailer connects with consumers and what it takes to stay current in a fast-changing industry.

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Episode transcript, edited for clarity.

Bill Thorne:                      Welcome to Retail Gets Real, where we hear from retail's most fascinating leaders about the industry that impacts everyone, everywhere, every day. I'm Bill Thorne from the National Retail Federation and our guest today is Pete Nordstrom, president and chief brand officer at Nordstrom Inc. We're going to talk to Pete about growing up in the family business, what it takes to stay current in a fast-changing industry, what's ahead for Nordstrom in 2023 and of course, we'll get the scoop on his own podcast, The Nordy Pod. Pete Nordstrom, welcome to Retail Gets Real.

Pete Nordstrom:             Thanks Bill. Nice to be on your show.

Bill Thorne:                      Appreciate you taking the time. I want to start with where we always have to start, which is, tell us about growing up in the Nordstrom family business. What was your first job?

Pete Nordstrom:             Well, my dad, probably like a lot of people of our generation, thinking about his generation and somewhat coming from that Depression era, it was like, ‘I started working when I was nine. You better get going.’

Bill Thorne:                      Yep.

Pete Nordstrom:             There weren't a lot of kids that I went to school with in sixth, seventh grade that were having a summer job, but we did in our household. Our dad's thing was like, you don't have to work at Nordstrom, but you got to do something. You got to, you can't just hang out all summer and bug your mother. You got to do things. So, I went where I could actually get work and that was coming with my dad in the morning to the store here in downtown Seattle. He would drop me off in a department — this is when I was 12, it was the summer between the sixth and seventh grade. He would drop me off in, it was usually the shoe department, and said, ‘OK, here's my kid and I'll be back later at the end of the day.’ They were obviously a little intimidated by that <laugh>. Interestingly, my dad was paying us out of his pocket. So, the department manager liked having us because we were free labor. But my literal first job I ever had is, for some reason he took me to our café here in the store and my job was to peel potatoes for the clam chowder.

Bill Thorne:                      Wow.

Pete Nordstrom:             I did that one day. I must not have been very good at it. I don't think I'd ever peeled a potato in my life before I had that job. I'm sure I wasn't very good at it, but that was my first ever job.

Bill Thorne:                      Peeling potatoes, that's, when you talk about getting in the Army or into the Navy, it always seems to me like they’re always in the kitchen peeling potatoes. I think that's pretty amazing that you peeled potatoes, and you wouldn't think about that in a retail industry job. But retail is vast in all of its jobs and — peeling potatoes is one thing — but what made you want to continue in the business?

Pete Nordstrom:             <laugh> Well, I don't think any kid when they're 12, 13 years old, when they talk about what they aspire to do for a living someday, says, ‘Geez, my dream is to be a retailer.’

Bill Thorne:                      I have yet to meet one, to be honest.

Pete Nordstrom:        It wasn't really on my mind. I knew what my dad and family did and all that stuff, but it never occurred to me that that's what I would be doing. People maybe don't always believe that. First of all, there was no plan that that's what we were going to do. None of this was in service of, ‘Oh, we're going to teach these guys the business from the bottom up and they're going to learn it and by the time they're this age they're going to do this and that,’ that was not it at all. It was like, ‘Hey, look it — you need to have some kind of a job.’ I remember early on, my parents being really clear about, ‘If there's things you want to buy, you can earn money to do that, but we're not just going to give you money for extra things.’ I remember I wanted to get a cassette player, like a boombox. Well, I mean I had to buy that. 

Bill Thorne:                      Right.

Pete Nordstrom:        When I went to basketball camp, I had to buy— spending money, that came from me. There was kind of a means to the end, the working was to be able to do these things. Really the big one was, ‘You're going to want to buy a car someday and we're not buying you one. So you want to earn money and save money. That's a good thing to do.’ When I say we, my brothers and I, it was a very similar situation. That's what we did. It was the job we could have and that's what we did. When I was 12, 13 years old, my aspiration was I wanted to be a professional basketball player. It wasn't about peeling potatoes or selling shoes or anything like that. Not that there's anything wrong with that because that's what I did, but it became pretty clear as getting into my teenage years that people probably weren't going to pay me money to play basketball. 

Bill Thorne:                      <laugh>.

Pete Nordstrom:        So for me, again, it was a really good summer job to have. I did stock work during the summers and then when I was 16, I started selling shoes. I sold women's shoes, 16, 17, 18, through high school. I sold men's shoes, one or two summers. Then when I was in college, I went to the University of Washington. I was an English major. I played some basketball, but I had my summer job of selling shoes, kind of whichever local Nordstrom store would have me — by this time I was on the payroll. My dad wasn't paying me out of his pocket, obviously.

That's really how it started for us. Then, I guess I would just finish that by saying I like the work. Since I'd done a lot of sports stuff growing up, the team part of what the job was made a lot of sense to me. It's like, you're on this team, you're trying to make your day, everybody is selling, they're doing their share. It's like scoring points. You have the managers, like the coach, that whole construct made sense to me. I liked being part of a team. I liked the people I worked with. We made pretty good money. By the time I was in college and really thinking about what I wanted to do, I felt like there was a great opportunity. I enjoyed that work. I understood the opportunity. I understood what my dad and his cousins had done and that if I was willing to work hard to really invest the energy in it, that I would get an opportunity. So, that's what I did.

Bill Thorne:                      That's fantastic. Nordstrom has been around for a long time. The one thing that is a sure bet in retail is change. I always tell people that if you want a career in retail, you've got to embrace change. If you don't like change, you should not be in retail because we change constantly. Retail's been through a lot in the last few years, not just the pandemic, but constantly accelerating the pace of change. How does Nordstrom stay current?

Pete Nordstrom:        Well, I don't think there's any choice. If you're not relevant, if you're not connected to customers in a relevant way, then you're not going to do enough business. You talk about the change and I think it's true, but if I think back of being in this business say from when I was 18 until I was 40, it didn't change very much. 

Bill Thorne:                      Hmm. 

Pete Nordstrom:        What changed was the stuff we bought as fashion trends and cycles and things like that. But, it didn't turn on a dime in a day. It wasn't that abrupt. So, I never sensed it in my earlier years in this business that it was all about change. It really wasn't until technology really started coming along and how online shopping became a thing, that it really turned the whole thing upside down and just changed the whole proposition. Then the other big changes, we used to do all our business with brands that were wholesalers, and we were retailers. They were separate and different things and they sold us. But now every wholesaler is also a retailer. 

Bill Thorne:                      Yeah. 

Pete Nordstrom:        They can sell direct to customers, and they have stores and what have you. Then just the way the online part of the business — so, all that has changed dramatically. But that's really been mostly in the last, gosh, what is it, 10 to 15 years.

Bill Thorne:                      Yeah. But when you think about change and the changes that you've had to go through and you talk about fashion, but you think about the generations too. Now we're all about Generation Z, Generation X, Generation Y, baby boomers, everything's about a generation, how they shop. Do you see that at Nordstrom?

Pete Nordstrom:        Not so much. I think what we've always been about is being relevant and being modern in our approach. If you don't have younger people and people with a modern sensibility connected to what you're doing, if you're not appealing to them, then you're just, you're becoming irrelevant. You're aging out of it. We've all seen department stores, retail stores, that were really great, amazing legacy businesses, but if they didn't find a way to attract new customers and young customers, they ended up going away at a certain point. We have a living reminder to that here where we are in downtown. We're in a building that used to house Frederick & Nelson, which was the big local department store here in our city for decades, generations. They literally went out of business in the nineties, and we went to their building because it was a bigger, better building. That's a pretty humble reminder of if you don't keep evolving, you're going to get left behind.

Bill Thorne:                      For sure. There's a long list if you think about, department stores or stores, brands, even in just the last 20 years. Iconic brands that have just disappeared and it seems like it just happened so quickly. But I do think that one of the reasons is that, and John Furner says, or I think it's Doug McMillan says he carries a list in on a laminated card in his breast pocket of stores that cease to exist because they didn't acknowledge the need to change or to keep up with the times. I had the opportunity, and appreciated your presentation at the Big Show, but talked with Tony Spring at Bloomingdale's, 150 years, they just celebrated their anniversary. Tony presented to the students and really talked about how Bloomingdale's has had to really make some pretty dramatic changes, acknowledge that the customers change, the tastes have changed, and in order to stay relevant they've had to change. Having gone through their flagship store, it's very obvious how they've done that. If you look around at the customers, they were all age groups. It was really interesting to see and a lot of it is about leadership too, Pete. What have you learned about leading through change over the last few years?

Pete Nordstrom:        The first word that comes to my mind is humility. It's not easy. I think if you're going to be effective at this, you've got to approach it with humility and curiosity or you're going to— hubris is your enemy on this one, you know what I mean? It's just, you can't think you know it all. I've been doing this a long time now, but I feel like I know less today maybe than I did before. If you'd asked me 20 years ago what it be like doing my job now, I would've felt like, ‘Oh, I've been doing this for a long time.’ You know, ‘Kind of got it figured out, train's really on the tracks,’ but it's not been like that at all. We've had a lot of disruptive things that have happened to us in a macro way.

Then just within our industry a lot of change as well. So academically it's been super interesting. But personally, in a lot of ways it's been super challenging. It's been difficult, but it just is what it is. I think if you're going to be in this business, you got to resign yourself like on day one that we don't define what good is or what good service is or whatever it is. Customers define that stuff. If you're not connected and close to what customers think, then you're going to get left behind. You mentioned this thing relative to specific generations and I guess that's true. I don't think we spend a lot of time trying to break it down by specific generations. They're people, they're customers. 

Bill Thorne:                      Yeah.

Pete Nordstrom:        Whether they're 60 or 16, they want to be treated well and we're really serving people regardless of age that want to be connected to the modern world and want us to be relevant. That's what we're trying to do.

Bill Thorne:                      One thing we talk a lot about, particularly in retail and the brands and its culture, how would you define the culture at Nordstrom?

Pete Nordstrom:        Well, it's something we think a lot about. I think at the end of the day it's probably the ultimate responsibility that any leader has at a company, is the how you do things and how you work with people and stuff. I think if it's top of mind, then you do the right thing. We try to stay connected, not only with customers, but through our people. We're lucky that we don't have to invent that. The culture of Nordstrom existed long before we got here, so we we're just trying to build on it as much as we can. We also recognize there's a real difference between values and practices. The values about how we interact with each other and our mission and all that stuff, that hasn't changed. The practices have changed a lot. So, I think sometimes we have to have an honest conversation of, is this a value or a practice? Do we want to evolve that practice? Do we want, because you typically don't want to change the values. You want to double down on them. 

Bill Thorne:                      Right. 

Pete Nordstrom:        We've gone through a lot of that over the years as our company and our businesses evolved.

Bill Thorne:                      I was talking to Ed Nordstrom not too long ago and the thing that always has impressed me about your brand is people either love it or they haven't shopped it. That basically, there's no middle ground. They love your store, they love your brand, they love the people that work there. They love what you offer, or they just haven't had the opportunity to shop your brand. I think that's really a huge testament to your culture, to the people. I can affirm that because, I married my husband, we went to Nordstrom to get our suits and the manager at the Pentagon City store was there. I have no style, I have no taste, I've been told. 

Pete Nordstrom:        <laugh> That's not very nice. 

Bill Thorne:                     Well, it's kind of true. I'm kind of a, ‘Gimme the boxy suit, I'm fine with it.’ So, it was kind of a stretch for me to even agree that we would need to go somewhere to get a nice suit. It was, your manager was able to not only engage me in that process, but to get me excited about the process. I told him afterwards, I said, ‘You know, you have a job in marital relations someday.’ Because I was angry. I didn't really want to be there and now I can't wait to get back. It's a real testament to your culture. It was, ‘How can I help?’ He read me really quick and we got it done in the suits. I love my suit. As a matter of fact, I keep my weight down just so I can continue to wear that suit.

Pete Nordstrom:        Well, that's a really nice story. I like hearing that. You had my attention at the beginning when you said customers either love Nordstrom and I was waiting for the ‘or.’ I thought the ‘or’ was going to be, ‘or they hate it.’

Bill Thorne:                     No.

Pete Nordstrom:    It was like that they haven't shopped it is better than they hate it <laugh>. Because I was going to, we were going to get into that. But <laugh> no, that's really nice. I think it gets back to that culture thing. I mean, just hearing that story, what we tried to do is keep our culture alive through examples of things that have actually happened. Stuff like that, I can use to be able to talk to our teams. Like, gosh, look, I just talked to this guy today and he talked about how he doesn't really like shopping, but the way that we treated him when he came into the store and his husband at a high stakes occasion like that where potentially a lot could go wrong. We earned a customer there by the way that we treated him. That's powerful stuff. I mean, you talked a little bit about the suit, but what you mostly talked about is how you were made to feel and how the people treated you. 

Bill Thorne:                     Yep.

Pete Nordstrom:        At the end of the day, that's the biggest differentiator we have in our business. It's the stuff we try to perpetuate through stories and reinforcing that stuff.

Bill Thorne:                      Yeah. It wasn't too long after that I went back to the store to buy a scarf for a friend for her birthday and he was gone. I was really upset about it. Then I heard that he was given a store and I think recognizing people, their value, their worth and the people that do good work and keeping them engaged, involved, giving them more leadership is another great culture trait. To your point, I do believe, ask anybody and I know that they're going to tell you what you probably — if somebody says, ‘Oh, there's Pete Nordstrom, I'm going to tell him how great his store is.’ Do you get a lot of people that come up and say, ‘Pete, you're missing on this one?’

Pete Nordstrom:        Yes. You might be surprised. Most of the stuff's super positive. It really is. But we also have an open door, answer our phone, we’re real people that are hearing from real people all the time. Most of what people have to say, at least in my experience, is where we've done something wrong. I think for us, there's a couple things there. First of all, it's usually because people hold us to a very high standard. 

Bill Thorne:                       True. 

Pete Nordstrom:        They expect a lot from us because either they've heard about it by reputation or they've had that personal experience. So that's actually a really good thing so that they're disappointed that it wasn't what they thought it should be. But then it's also that they have the trust and the confidence to want to be able to express this to us because they want us to be better.

They want to like Nordstrom, they want it to be better, they want to keep shopping there. It's really an advantage for us to be able to get that kind of honest feedback from people. We try to use it in the most constructive way. But yeah, sure, I get a lot of super positive things, but I'll also get, let me tell you about this pair of shoes that didn't work out for me, or I got to tell you about this one time something was shipped to my house, but it got delivered to my neighbor's house. I mean, all the stuff that all of us know all about. 

Bill Thorne:                      Yep.

Pete Nordstrom:        But you know, we're serving millions of customers. 

Bill Thorne:                      Yep. 

Pete Nordstrom:        There's a lot of stuff that happens.

Bill Thorne:                      For sure.

Pete Nordstrom:        All day long.

Bill Thorne:                      I wanted to talk just a little bit about The Nordy Pod. You started that about a year ago. Why did you start it?

Pete Nordstrom:        <laugh> I think the simple answer to that is because we could. 

Bill Thorne:                      <laugh>. 

Pete Nordstrom:        The bar's not super high to do a podcast. It doesn't require all kinds of investment. There's a zillion of them out there. As you talked about earlier when we just started chatting, it was, what makes these things work is it feels like it's an authentic conversation. There's a little bit of formula to that, but I don't know, it felt like something we could try and could do without breaking the bank as a way of creating another connection point with customers by giving them some insight to how we do things. There wasn't a huge agenda for us about specifically what we were trying to do. I got really good advice from a friend of mine who's in the entertainment business and he just said, ‘Look this thing's going to work, but it's only going to work if you represent yourself as you are as a real person.’

Then that you have these interesting things that happen all day long, whether it's in your business or interests that you have personally or this connection with people. We just got started and a big part of it was really, I think, just trying to tell the story about what it is that we try to do and our connection with customers and our spirit of intent around that. It's been pretty fun for me to do in a lot of ways. I've enjoyed it. But yeah, we've been doing it for about a year and hopefully we can keep it going.

Bill Thorne:                      Well, as we were talking before we started the program, you know you are our 301st episode, and I think that for me, in 2017, the team came to me and they said, ‘Hey, what do you think about a podcast?’ I was like, ‘I think this is just a fad.’

Pete Nordstrom:             <laugh>.

Bill Thorne:                       I don't see any why would we invest the resources and time and energy behind something that I don't think is going to be around all that long. They basically took my phone away from me. They downloaded a couple, I'm a big University of Georgia athletic supporter, and—

Pete Nordstrom:             Well, that's a good school to support. You guys are pretty good at football.

Bill Thorne:                      Thank you. Yeah. So, they found a couple of podcasts and downloaded it on my phone. I had a two-hour drive down to my farm in Southeast Virginia. They said, ‘Please listen,’ I listened, and I came back and I said, ‘Let's get this thing going.’ We've been doing it pretty much ever since. But a lot of it, for us and I know for you, it's a great way to tell the story and tell it authentically because it's coming from you. It's not somebody else telling your story. You are telling the story. I think that's—

Pete Nordstrom:             Yeah, but in most ways, I feel like I'm just a vehicle for the people, the stories and stuff. It's not really about me, it's just me being a vehicle for that. From being involved in this industry, there's a zillion stories, there's all kinds of stuff that happens all the time.

Bill Thorne:                      Every day.

Pete Nordstrom:             Some of it funny, some of it tragic, some of it just kind of unbelievable. But at the heart of it, there's all these really human things that are revealed through this business that I think if you allow that story to be told, if you're open to it, you just get interesting things. I've learned over the years, it serves me well. It serves any leader well to be curious. I don't think it's something I naturally was. I've learned how to do that better because in service of trying to be effective in my job, being curious is important. I think that helps too, but anyway, I would say congratulations to you guys. You've had 301 of these. That's pretty good. You're doing something right.

Bill Thorne:                      <laugh> Thank you. Let's talk about the business a little bit. Nordstrom 2023, what's the focus?

Pete Nordstrom:             Well, in a lot of ways focus is the focus. It's, we've come through some really challenging times and there continues to be macro issues that are impactful. But, I think, what the pandemic and those abrupt changes really revealed is the vulnerabilities of any business. Certainly, in ours we could see that. I would say high on that list is just agility. You talked about change and what all that means. If you don't have agility in your processes, in your operating model, if you don't have good data, access to data, you're going to get left behind. I'd say for us in ‘23, the big thing is, it's not about new strategies, it's more about really focusing on a small handful of things that were a lot of value for us. It's not the most sexy kind of year. Like, here we go, we're going to do these new things, we're going to take the mountaintop. It's like we know these are the areas that we have to improve upon, everyone knows it and we're going to double down, execute, improve our process, improve our operating models and that's going to improve our results. So we're pretty focused on focus. How's that?

Bill Thorne:                    <laugh> I like that very much.

Pete Nordstrom:        I don't know what the business schools, that doesn't sound very smart, but that's what we're trying to do.

Bill Thorne:                     Focus on focus. The future of retail. What excites you most about it?

Pete Nordstrom:        I think the future, it's just the fact that it's unwritten and it's unknown. It's not, again, like we, you sit here and just given the fact that you've had success in the past or you have a legacy that entitles you to success. 

Bill Thorne:                    Right.

Pete Nordstrom:        I think that that entrepreneurial thing that's going on out there, because people are creating new things all the time, is it's inspiring. So, I don’t know, I think that the future of our business is, somewhat what we talked about earlier, how do we preserve and really amplify the culture and the values that in so many qualitative ways, make our business special to people while at the same time just having a black belt around execution and process. You'd need to be able to do both.

There's the high touch and the more process part of the business. I think that stuff is really exciting and interesting. The other thing is just that it's good that time marches on and new people come in, our business and all of us get a lot of energy from new people coming in, their ideas and their energy. We feel optimistic about the future. We're just trying to do the best we can in the space that we participate in. We're trying to approach it humbly, but we also believe that there's a big opportunity for us to be bigger and better.

Bill Thorne:                    Yeah. I think that when you stop looking at it that way, you're in trouble.

Pete Nordstrom:        I think that's right. Yeah. You've got to embrace that or you're right. You get left behind and yeah, I feel like we have reminders of that all day long around here.

Bill Thorne:                     For sure. I indicated earlier that a lot of students listen to this program, I always ask because I think this is important for them to hear, What is the best piece of career advice for those just starting in retail?

Pete Nordstrom:        That's a good question. It's not going to be a very sexy answer, but I think you'll appreciate what I mean by this. I don't think there's any substitute for just application and trying hard, applying yourself to something and bringing your best self to work. If we can get the best of what people have to offer because they're personally invested in what's going on and it means something to them, it feels like it's connected with their values and all that, then it's amazing what you can accomplish. I think I would just, my suggestion for young people is, try to find a business and industry or something that you feel like you can sink your teeth into. It doesn't have to be your lifelong dream. At the end of the day, it's still a job.

You can have hobbies, interests and activities that can scratch that itch, but your work should give you a lot of satisfaction and that you can be someplace where you can make an impact. I think ultimately that's all people really want, is to be able to go someplace where they can sink their teeth into it and they can contribute and make an impact. I would just encourage people to try to find that kind of place. The other thing I would say, there's no shortcuts in this deal. To us, what makes a young person valuable is their experiences. 

Bill Thorne:                    Right.

Pete Nordstrom:        You've got to have those experiences. You can't skip all those steps. When people have done different things and they can talk about their successes, their failures and the different stuff that they've tried, you're stronger or you're a better candidate for having a body of experiences. There's just no shortcut to it. So go get the experiences, start working, start doing your thing and be open to taking on responsibilities and change it because it's really difficult to predict. I think you've got to be willing to just go for it a little bit and then things tend to work out. 

Bill Thorne:                    Yeah.

Pete Nordstrom:        I don't believe there's a shortcut. I think it's all rooted in, you got to work hard, you got to apply yourself.

Bill Thorne:                    Yeah. The one thing, with 301 episodes into it, the one thing that always strikes me when we talk to retail leaders or entrepreneurs or people who had an idea and who developed that idea and has been successful as a result of that idea, is just the passion that they bring to their work. It's not just the passion for the work that they do, but the passion that they bring for the people they work with and the customers that they serve. It just seems to be this underlying, I'm in it because I love it. I really enjoy what I'm doing and it's not a slot, it's something I wake up and I look forward to the day ahead.

Pete Nordstrom:        Yeah, I know. I think what you're talking about there also speaks to a company like ours, any big company, whatever it is that we are, is defined by the people that are here. It's not defined by a small handful of people named Nordstrom. It's all these people interact with customers every day and the amount of energy we get, these guys are running the business, from all these people that are in it for all these really great, sincere and authentic reasons and they bring that energy and their personal best and that level of commitment, it's really motivating. 

Bill Thorne:                    Yeah

Pete Nordstrom:        And inspiring, I think, to us. It's important that we stay focused, that the magic is really about the people, how they deliver and the energy that they bring to the business. 

Bill Thorne:                    Yep.

Pete Nordstrom:        Anything that we can do to enable that is smart and good leadership.

Bill Thorne:                    Absolutely. Pete Nordstrom, it has been a sincere pleasure talking with you. Thank you for joining us today on Retail Gets Real.

Pete Nordstrom:        Well, you made this easy on me. I appreciate it and congratulations on the 300 plus episodes. It's amazing. Also, I'd say congratulations on the conference. 

Bill Thorne:                    Thank you.

Pete Nordstrom:        I've gone to that handful of times over the years and I was just so impressed like, this is a big thing.

Bill Thorne:                    <laugh>. 

Pete Nordstrom:        There's a lot going on here and that takes a lot of effort to execute on that. So congratulations to you guys. I thought, from what I saw that conference was successful. I had good feedback from our team that attended, and you guys did a nice job with that, so. 

Bill Thorne:                    Well, thank you. It was exciting to be back and it was, and I will tell you, my highlight was walking around on the exhibit floor and every once in a while you'd hear the, ‘Hey!’ and the high five and, ‘Haven't seen in three years,’ and it's wonderful to be able to come together again. People have missed that.

Pete Nordstrom:        I agree. I thought it was great.

Bill Thorne:                    Thank you, Pete, and thank you all for listening to another episode of Retail Gets Real. You can find more information about this episode at I'm Bill Thorne, this is Retail Gets Real. Thanks for listening. Until next time.

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