How Vera Bradley transformed a legacy brand

Episode transcript, edited for clarity

[00:00:42] Bill: Welcome to Retail Gets Real, where we hear from retail's most fascinating leaders about the industry that impacts everyone, everywhere, every day.

[00:00:50] I'm Bill Thorne from the National Retail Federation, coming to you from NRF 2025: Retail's Big Show in New York City. And on today's episode, we're talking to Jackie Ardrey, CEO of Vera Bradley. We're going to talk to Jackie about leading Vera Bradley's transformation, today's Vera Bradley customer and what she loves about working in retail. Jackie Ardrey, welcome to Retail Get Real

[00:01:14] Jackie: Thanks. I'm so excited to be here and so excited to be an NRF retail voice this year. This program is an inaugural program, I think, as you know, but maybe listeners don't know. And it's been really exciting. I've met a lot of new people and have had the opportunity to be involved in a couple of different things that I haven't before at NRF. So, in the spirit of retail and always learning and always discovering, it was a perfect program. So I'm happy to be part of that, and I'm happy to be here today.

[00:01:42] Bill: So tell me this. How many NRF Big Shows have you been to?

[00:01:45] Jackie: Wow, I wasn't prepared for that question.

[00:01:47] Bill: Just ballpark it.

[00:01:50] Jackie: A lot. Yeah. I've come every year for the past recent years. I grew up as a merchant, so this wasn't really my first show, my first priority when I go to shows in New York. But certainly, it's been a part of my career since the beginning.

[00:02:07] Bill: It's a big show.

[00:02:09] Jackie: Yeah.

[00:02:09] Bill: I looked out this morning. We opened, and we had John [Inaudible], the CEO of Nvidia. And it was packed. I mean, 5,000 chairs. It was packed. It was amazing to me.

[00:02:23] Jackie: Every session I've been to so far has been standing room only, which this seems to me to be the busiest that I've ever seen it. I don't know what the attendance numbers are, but it certainly seems that way to me. And I think the brands too that are represented and the companies and the technologies really have grown over the years.

[00:02:41] Bill: We were talking about this this morning, at breakfast in the staff office, and there's this level of enthusiasm and energy. Now, you always feel it, but it seems to be like on steroids this year for some reason.

[00:02:52] Jackie: I agree. I was upstairs on the fourth floor and the lines to just get into the sessions, they move quickly, but it's something I haven't seen here before. It's just that the intense interest and the topics are so broad too that it was hard to pick. As I was preparing for the show, it reminded me of choosing my college courses, where it was just like, okay, I can't go to that one because that's at 3 o'clock and I have all these.

[00:03:21] And so there were so many great topics that, even as a CEO, when you're looking at narrowing your focus and saying, okay, what are the really important things? There was this just menu of incredible choices that were — it was really compelling.

[00:03:36] Bill: It's exciting, and exciting to have you here. It's exciting to launch the Retail Voices Network. This is really the start of something beautiful, I believe.

[00:03:44] Jackie, so tell me a little bit about your background. How did you get into retail?

[00:03:49] Jackie:  I love to tell the story that I started in retail on the floor, as I think many of us probably do. When I was 16, I started at Macy's in the jewelry counter. And one of my earliest memories of being in retail was, I couldn't believe that someone gave me, and I'm going to date myself here, but gave me the authority over the Swatch watch counter.

[00:04:12] That was my first step. And I still can remember how I felt, just with all these Swatch watches. I knew everything about them, and I just wanted to sell them to people. And that's when I think I knew that this is something that is for me. I knew that retail was in my blood for sure, but I think after college, when I started, I went to the May company training program right out of college, and then I think I was off.

[00:04:42] I spent the first seven or eight years in department store retail and then moved on to specialty. And I merchant the whole time. Merchant route up CEO. So very fortunate to have exposure to a lot of areas of the business. And I think when you're in a merchant-driven brand, you do get exposure to everything, and I think it's a great path to eventually becoming a CEO.

[00:05:07] Bill: So when you went to college — you went to college. You were thinking in your mind, or not, I want to go into retail. Retail's going to be my career. I'm going to study these things in order to go into retail. Or did you study your things and be like, "Ah, maybe I'll do retail."

[00:05:23] Jackie: The latter.

[00:05:25] Bill: So many. Join the club.

[00:05:27] Jackie: Yeah. I went into school thinking that I really wanted to teach, which is also, I think, is an important part of my makeup and my interest. I'm a lifelong learner, and I love to teach. And so I think that was my initial interest. But then I just got involved in a lot of things in college and eventually, I went to Penn State, and I became the — by the time I was a senior, I was the president of the marketing association.

[00:05:56] I was not a business major, which was interesting, but I was so interested and driven by just all of the seminars and things that were happening in school, and I was a communications major, and I had a business minor. But it was just so interesting to me, all the different aspects of business and leading a group.

[00:06:16] It was the biggest single student group on campus. And so I had all this exposure to all these different companies who would come for the years that I was involved in that organization, and I found myself — so it was a great path because I found myself with the retail recruiters.

[00:06:32] Those are the people who I really developed great relationships with, and eventually, now that I think about it in hindsight, it was a powerful precursor to, hey, these are my people. This is where I belong. And so it's been an amazing career. No matter where you are in the curve, if your business is doing well or you're in a transformation, and transformations are just a lot of work, which we'll talk about, there's always something new, and there's always something to learn.

[00:07:03] And I think that that's one of the things that has been most important to me in my career. And one of the things that I think I've learned that's been so important is that it's critical as a leader, as you move up in an organization, to be very comfortable with what you don't know and what you still need to learn.

[00:07:21] And that is one of the things that I think has made me successful, that I never have a perspective that I know everything about a subject. And so pulling people in, hiring the best people, especially where I don't know things or things that are areas that are not my strength, has been a real asset to my leadership over the years.

[00:07:42] Bill: I had a very early-on lesson in my professional life. I was asked a question by my big boss, and I was certain that what he was asking, the answer was yes. And so he said, "Are you sure?" I said it, "Yes, absolutely. It's there." And he said, "It's not." And I was like, "Oh gosh, I got to get my resume updated. This is going to be really bad."

[00:08:04] And he said, "There's three answers that you can give. Yes, no, and I don't know, but I'll find out." And that has been a guiding force in my life. “I don't know, but I will find out.” Don't fear to say that you don't know because you got to learn. You got to learn as you go along.

[00:08:19] Jackie: I think that's absolutely true. I think it's much more dangerous to say you know something when you don't than to just say, “I don't know.” And it's amazing how even as you progress through your career, that there are times that I might have to say that to a board member or my board director.

[00:08:41] And it's always worth that pause to — obviously, you have to be extremely prepared for everything that you do, but there's — so I'm certainly not downplaying the importance of that. But there are times that you just don't know, and you need to think on things more, and that's the right answer at an executive level.

[00:09:02] Bill: Yeah. You don't want to say, “I don't know, but I'll find out” many times in a very short period of time, like in one meeting.

[00:09:10] Jackie: You can play that card very sparingly. But it is powerful, and I think it shows the ability, especially in a career like retail, where you have to be learning all the time the same things. I talk to other leaders about this all the time, about just how post-COVID, things have changed.

[00:09:28] When you look at sales trajectory and you look at customer behavior, of course, a lot of fundamentals are still the same, but there's a lot of things that aren't the same, and there's a lot of patterns that we're seeing that have changed. And so recognizing those patterns and looking at data and always wanting to learn, that, I think, is really key for people. New ideas and innovation is critical in our industry.

[00:09:55] Bill: We talk a lot. If you listen to five episodes, I'll bet you in three we talk about change and the pace of change in retail. When I talk to students or I talk to the interns, one thing I want them to understand is this industry changes faster than any other industry. In innovation, in technology, in focus, in any way that you can think of how a successful business must change, retail will change.

[00:10:21] And so you have two choices. You either accept change, make it a part of what you are doing. You embrace it. You succeed as a result of it. You bring others with it, and you succeed. Or you get frustrated by it, you ignore it, try to get around it, and eventually you just have to leave. So that's your two choices.

[00:10:41] Jackie: I think that's such an astute observation, and I was just telling a colleague about this the other day. Someone who was struggling with a decision in their career and asked me for guidance and input, I listened, and finally, I said, "It seems like you're in a place that you don't really want to accept these changes."

[00:11:06] And if that's the case, then it is time to move on. It's time to go because you're not going to benefit yourself or anybody else in the organization. And that was a little bit of the, I think, the push that she may be needed to say, "You know what? Maybe it's time for something new." And I think that that happens to everybody and just recognizing that if you're resisting change, then it's probably time to leave.

[00:11:34] Bill: Yes. All right. So let's talk about Vera Bradley. Let's talk about a transformation, an exciting transformation. Tell us about some of the big changes you're going through, speaking of change.

[00:11:44] Jackie: Speaking of change, yes. So, Vera Bradley, first of all, I'm sure people listening probably know about Vera Bradley. And we have a long history. We're a female-founded organization, two founders, who really — I love the story that they were in an airport, traveling.

[00:12:04] They were friends and neighbors. They were traveling together, and on the way back from their trip, they noticed that every bag in the airport was black. Everything that they saw was black. And the founder's comment was — this was Barb, but she said, "Wow, this place could really use some color."

[00:12:23] And that's how it all started, was just looking at everything that was, people were carrying and saying, we just need some color and fun. And that's how the brand was born. Over the years, it became just so beloved to many people and many generations. And that's one of the things that's really unique about our brand, is that we have a multi-generational customer. We always have.

[00:12:48] And there's so much to unlock from people in terms of their Vera Bradley stories. And so when I was called for this job, I immediately — and this is what excites me about most people I talk to, when I say that I work with Vera Bradley, that they tell me a story about their first Vera Bradley and what it means to them and how it's connected.

[00:13:09] So it's an original story. It's about authenticity. It's about who these two women were. And so my first Vera Bradley story was, I remembered, and this is really one of the reasons why I came to the brand, was my daughter, who's now 28. She was given a bag by her grandmother when she was in high school, and I just loved it.

[00:13:33] There was some things that was so unique, and I remember what the pattern was. And I was like, "I want to be part of this. This is fun." And I remember at the time going into a store. I lived in Oregon at that point, and I went into a store and I was just like, "There just isn't something for me. I don't wear patterned clothes.”

[00:13:52] I'm pretty much a solid person. I like color. But it really spoke to me in terms of, hey, is there an opportunity to get this brand to more people in a way that's authentic to the roots? And that's really what spurred my initial interest in this opportunity, and it has just been a wonderful journey.

[00:14:15] We've learned a lot, certainly. We've had so many loyal customers. This customer is so dedicated, and she just loves who we are and what we do. And so it's been a great journey. I really started with, foundationally, four pyramids to the transformation.

[00:14:37] And they were a product pyramid, a brand pyramid, a consumer, and a channel pyramid. So looking at all of those things and saying, what did we need to adjust or address in each of those in order to complete our transformation? And so that culminated in a re-release of our brand product in July of last year.

[00:14:59] And we were really aiming to do a couple of things and just first modernize the product a little bit and appeal to both our existing customers and some new customers, some younger customers. Also, really, we had to reposition the brand, and I think I'd call it a gentle repositioning rather than a huge pivot.

[00:15:24] It was more of a general reposition, but I'm super proud of what the team accomplished in the green shoots that we're seeing. We definitely were able to shift our customer composition. So we still are proud of having that multi-generational customer, but we've shifted it to a more balanced age representation, and it's just been exciting to see.

[00:15:47] We've had a lot of coverage. Our brand awareness has increased a lot. It had been declining for many years, so our brand awareness has increased from our campaigns that we've been doing. And we're still always learning too. We had some feedback from customers, a couple of things that we just didn't get right, quite frankly. And we were able to pivot and make those changes.

[00:16:08] But overall, I'm pleased at the green shoots that we're seeing and where we're going. But talk about change, it is not for the faint of heart. A brand transformation, especially a beloved brand, when people for generations have had very distinct points of view about what we should and shouldn't do, it's humbling sometimes that you get this customer feedback and you synthesized it through all of the tools that we have to read all that data.

[00:16:36] So fortunately, this is really where technology meets the art of retail, where somebody says, "I don't really like this color. I think you didn't do this right." We've got the data and we can read it, and it's unemotional. This is exactly what they're saying. Here's what we need to do to adjust.

[00:16:54] And so having those tools really helped us pivot quickly and keep — because any transformation you do, you're going to get things wrong. And you have to continue to mine all that data, listen to your customers, and go forward.

[00:17:08] Bill: Call them honorable failures. So I wrote this down because it really is, I think, difficult. I know the Vera Bradley brand because my mother and her sisters, now, they're all Hoosiers, so they consider it a hometown product. But the generational side of that, where you actually speak to my cousins and my second cousins and others, Gen Zers, whatever's coming up next, therein lies the rub. How do you maintain that loyalty and yet at the same time attract the new customer? They don't want their mother's bag, but they want Vera Bradley bag.

[00:17:44] Jackie: Right. I think that's one of the reasons why we've employed some of the marketing tactics that we've used, and we've moved to a more social-first marketing concentration. So that's really where we're seeing the impact. And again, you first have to adjust the product so that we still have heritage prints and patterns, but now we have modern looks as well.

[00:18:11] So all of that looks great together when you walk into one of our stores. And that's one of the things I do on the weekends, is my Vera Bradley store is 10 minutes from my house in Cincinnati, and at 14, I'm in there all the time.

[00:18:27] Bill: Here she comes.

[00:18:28] Jackie: Yeah, no.

[00:18:30] Bill: Get ready.

[00:18:31] Jackie: They know. They know when they anticipate. They're like, "She didn't come in last weekend. I think she was traveling." But it's amazing to me what you learn just by standing on the floor for a little while. And then side note, my son who is 17 and a senior in high school, he actually started working at the store too.

[00:18:52] Bill: At the store. Really?

[00:18:52] Jackie: At Christmas. And I love it because he's got a totally different perspective. And so he'll come in and it — the store manager actually asked for him because he's in there with me all the time anyway. So it was funny, but what I realized, it's part of what the founders actually built as well, because Barb and Pat, their families and their kids worked in the business too.

[00:19:16] I think as a working mom all these years, my kids always knew what I was doing. They always knew where I was. They always came into work. And that's something that I really believe is important. But for him to be on the floor and just listening to customer comments, when he gets home, I get a half an hour of what everybody said, which I love that most of the time.

[00:19:39] Bill: Some good.

[00:19:39] Jackie: Because I'm like, "I just turned my work brain off for a little while." But, no, that doesn't happen. But it's fun. Especially now, just that customer feedback is just so important, and some of the smaller insights turn into big ideas.

[00:19:54] Bill: For sure. Absolutely, for sure. So you're a retailer. You lead a company. Something has to keep you up at night other than the cold weather.

[00:20:05] Jackie: I think right now what keeps me up at night, and we were talking about this right before, is just I think the unpredictability of the consumer post-COVID, that is what is the — it doesn't keep me up at night, but certainly what's on my mind during the day and at night, is how do we understand her better and her buying cycles? And is there a change?

[00:20:30] Certainly, there's a lot more focus on value and there has been in the last year or so. I was at a session this morning about just changes post-election and the overall economy. And so you thinking about that and all of the tariff conversations that we're having and how that's going to impact inflation.

[00:20:49] So it's tough for people. In a non-discretionary category, especially like ours, how do we keep her coming back? How do we bring her into our world that's just fun and joyful, that can maybe give her a temporary respite from the things that she's dealing with? Because it is joyful and fun. And that's what we get from our customers. We hear that all the time. That's why they buy. It's a little affordable luxury that makes them happy.

[00:21:23] Bill: Yeah. I remember my mom, she was in a store, I don't know, even walking down the sidewalk near the mall, and she'd see somebody with a Vera. She'd know it was a Vera Bradley. And it was an immediate opportunity to connect. She would say, "Hello, I love your bag."

[00:21:40] Jackie: Yes.

[00:21:40] Bill: I'd be like, "How does she even know?" It's pretty impressive.

[00:21:43] Jackie: It is impressive. It's an impressive brand that's lasted a very long time in a world where there's competitors and people who will actually just — there's lots of things to choose from, I guess is what I'm trying to say. And it's a distinctive look.

[00:22:03] And so we did in our rebrand, try to broaden that a little bit. So we have more solids. We've kept to our colorful heritage for sure, but we have more things that are wearable for all people. Because we just want all people to be part of this. And it's still distinctive. It's still very recognizable as Vera Bradley, but it's new. So I think that that's the thing that I'm most proud of, is what we've been able to deliver in this rebrand.

[00:22:30] Bill: I know that we're short on time, but I've got two more questions, if I may. I'm going to start with this. Just like my mom, you're in the airport. You see somebody with a Vera Bradley bag and they're sitting there. Do you go up and talk to them?

[00:22:42] Jackie: Oh yeah.

[00:22:43] Bill: Do you?

[00:22:43] Jackie: Sure.

[00:22:44] Bill: Ask them about what they like about it?

[00:22:45] Jackie: I do. I always judge whether I reveal that I'm with Vera Bradley or not. It all depends. But I try not to because I really just want to hear what is —

[00:22:57] Bill: An honest assessment.

[00:22:57] Jackie: That's right. And it's a great way to augment what you see and all the official and very structured data that you get your brand. And then augment that with what you hear. But you see it constantly, see lots of people carrying it in airports. So yeah, it's not hard to have those opportunities. I certainly don't talk to everyone, I would say.

[00:23:23] Bill: It tends to be a lot of people.

[00:23:25] Jackie: Right. But I do look for insights for sure.

[00:23:29] Bill: I think it would be fun. If you're there and you see somebody, especially somebody younger, why Vera Bradley? How did you come across Vera Bradley? And especially if you have the bag, that's your entree. You don't have to say, "I'm the CEO of Vera Bradley."

[00:23:42] I love my bag. How do you like your bag? It's pretty cool. Then the last question is simply this: what is the best piece of advice that you've gotten in your career?

[00:23:53] Jackie: I think this is such a great question because I've received so much good advice from all different people, from mentors, from bosses, from peers. And I think over my career, one of the things I realized is that it's always beneficial, especially in a time like now when there's — retail right now is turbulent.

[00:24:25] We're seeing a lot of consolidation still, continuing consolidation, and you don't always deliver the results that you expect. So there's times that they're — and it's really easy to get angry and emotional, but anytime when you're overcome by emotion and something that's happening directly, that's completely valid, and these are things that we all spend a lot of time.

[00:24:54] We spend a lot of time on our careers and what we love, but how you treat people and how you manage that emotion as a leader and how you direct it into the next actionable thing is the most important lesson that I've learned. Because I think I did have a tendency to just be more reactive at times when things weren't going well or I didn't get the response that I wanted.

[00:25:21] But to sit on that emotion, to withdraw from — but you have to say it. You have to say, "Look, I'm really feeling frustrated or angry about this. I need to think about it and come back." That's been the most powerful lesson, I think, I've learned as a leader, because whatever comes out of your mouth next is probably not going to be the best thing. And if you can wait and pause and be more thoughtful, it's always a better outcome.

[00:25:48] Bill: It's like write the email and then delete it.

[00:25:51] Jackie: Exactly, exactly. As simple as that, which you don't always have the ability to do that in a meeting or during a discussion. But it's something that I've definitely mastered. And I don't think you ever can shy away from just what you're feeling, but you can always pause and allow yourself —

[00:26:10] Bill: And regroup.

[00:26:10] Jackie: Time to think because that almost always delivers a better solution.

[00:26:15] Bill: Totally. Jackie Ardrey, it has been a true pleasure talking with you. Thank you for joining us today on Retail Gets Real.

[00:26:23] Jackie: Yes. Thanks for having me.

[00:26:24] Bill: And thank you all for listening to another episode of Retail Gets Real. You can find more information about this episode at retail gets real dot com. From Retail's Big Show in New York City, I'm Bill Thorne. This is Retail Gets Real. Thanks for listening. Until next time.