Lessons from a young retail leader

Episode transcript, edited for clarity

[00:00:19] Bill: Welcome to Retail Gets Real, where we hear from retail’s most fascinating leaders about the industry that impacts everyone, everywhere, every day. I’m Bill Thorne from the National Retail Federation, and on today’s episode we’re talking to Gucci team manager Robert Davison Long. We’re going to talk to Robert about his journey in retail and hear his perspective as a young leader in this most fascinating industry. Robert Davison Long, my friend, welcome to  Retail Gets Real.

[00:00:50] Robert: Thank you for having me.

[00:00:51] Bill: It’s great that you were able to make the time, and you’ve got some great stories to tell. There’s absolutely no doubt in my mind. So we’re going to get right into it. And I just want to know, from the start, what was your first job in retail?

[00:01:04] Robert: My first job in retail was, I was a seasonal sales associate at Armani Exchange in Watertown in Chicago many, many moons ago. And I remember giving up a bunch of my resumes and going to the different stores … and I did a large group interview at Armani Exchange and did really well, and the store manager ended up contacting me maybe about a week and a half later to come in and do an interview specifically with him and the retail director for the area. I ended up getting the job, and from there went on to be a keyholder and went on from there to be a full-time keyholder. And that was my first retail job.

[00:01:44] Bill: That’s pretty awesome. Be honest, Robert. You didn’t wake up one day and say, “I want to be in retail.” You planned for it, didn’t you? Or did you?

[00:01:51] Robert:  I know for me, specifically, retail was something that was important to me. I’m very customer-focused, and I love people. So any job —

[00:02:00] Bill: That’s so weird. I could hardly tell that.

[00:02:03] Robert: In the industry that allows me to work closely with people is something that I naturally gravitate toward. Fashion retail specifically is super important to me because I used to go shopping with my mom all of the time, and the feeling that she would have when she would leave the stores, about the experience that was created for her, was something that I always wanted to be a part of. And that was something that I leaned into.

Fashion is super emotional. It communicates. It conveys a message, and that’s something that I’ve leaned into. So in a way, I planned it. But then once I got into the actual fashion retail of it, that’s where I kept going.

[00:02:40] Bill: Now, you had your start, but man, there’s been a lot between your start and where you are today. So tell us about your current role and how you got there. And I think you just hinted at this, but why luxury?

[00:02:52] Robert: Luxury to me is about creating an overall experience for the customer. And that’s something that I lean into. I love to talk. I love romancing a product. I love creating a great feeling for the customer because, again, fashion is emotional. Luxury retail is a really big part of that.

It’s not just a bag on the wall. There’s history behind it. There’s craftsmanship. There’s the excitement of marrying the product to the actual person. That is something that I love to do. I love to find out about product. I love learning about it.

But then I also love learning about the person that I’m communicating the product about to. The luxury retail industry allows me to blend both, my passion for people, but then also the passion for the craftsmanship and the items that I’m selling. And I went from Armani Exchange, and then I went to the Frye Company. I went to Express, and I went to Coach.

Coach was actually my first job into the next echelon of retail. And it was also while I was competing for the NRF Foundation Next Gen Scholarship. Went through that, and once I finished the program and ended up winning the scholarship, it put me on this national platform.

So now I’m getting emails and DMs on LinkedIn from brands that I’ve always wanted to work at or have had some type of familiarity with but never had the confidence and those skillsets to really apply for. And so after competing, put me on this national platform, and I was able to apply to different jobs that were normally out of my scope. So from there I went to Prada. I went to Burberry. And now I’m at Tyson’s Corner as the team leader for the Gucci location there. And it’s been an amazing journey.

[00:04:35] Bill: For sure. You just used a phrase, I don’t think I’ve ever heard before. And maybe I misheard it, but I hope I didn’t. Did you say romancing a product?

[00:04:43] Robert: Yes.

[00:04:44] Bill: That is so awesome. Tell me what’s behind romancing a product.

[00:04:50] Robert: Romancing a product to me is, you want to sell the product, but you also want to create the experience around the product. And romancing to me is more than just, “Here’s this black bag. You need to have it.” I need to be able to speak to its functionality, its key features. And also, I need to be able to help you visualize yourself in this product.

That’s where the excitement comes from. Bags come in so many different shapes and sizes and colors. And when people come into my store specifically, Gucci, they’re coming for the brand. They’re coming for the name. They’re coming for the craftsmanship.

A lot of the times they already have a little bit of brand familiarity. It’s my job to take that next step and really create the experience around, again, the history and the craftsmanship and the product details, and all of that, instead of me just saying, “Here’s this black bag that you asked for. Here it is.”

[00:05:41] Bill: I have a feeling you romance just about everything. And that’s a compliment. That’s not a dig. That is a compliment. I think you could get me to buy a lot.

[00:05:53] Robert: Yeah.

[00:05:53] Bill: Not just Gucci. When you start a job — and you’ve had a number of jobs — but you’re in this leadership position. What’s something that surprised you or something that you had to learn really fast once you started your current role?

[00:06:08] Robert: I had to learn that I can’t fix all problems right away. Specifically at this role, I’m coming in with fresh eyes, but they’re also nascent. I don’t have the experience of knowing all the team dynamics and operations and things of that nature.

And that’s for any new role that I’ve had. I’ve really had to surprise myself because I have to sit on my hands and really listen and watch and observe where improvements could be made, where the opportunities are what I would do differently.

Something that surprised me is, I’m very linear with my thinking, contingent upon what it is. And I’ve had to learn that people, they’re complex. They’re fully realized human beings. The thing that surprised me the most with any new role is, I’ve had to learn them as people within my store, but also individually outside of work. Because people bring their selves outside of work to work.

It surprised me how fast I needed to learn how to manage people. Because to manage a person, you have to manage them in totality. I can’t just manage them in my store. I have to take into account how they are and who they are as a whole person.

[00:07:21] Bill: Interesting. I guess what you’re saying is that you have to teach yourself to listen and to be patient, basically.

[00:07:30] Robert: A lot of patience.

[00:07:31] Bill: Yeah, for sure.

[00:07:32] Robert: A lot of patience for sure.

[00:07:34] Bill: You’re a young leader in this very competitive industry, but in one of the most, as I said, fascinating industries in the world. What is your perspective as a young leader of the retail industry?

[00:07:47] Robert: Oh, that is a wide question.

[00:07:49] Bill: It is. You can fly a 747. You can answer that any way you want.

[00:07:53] Robert: My perception of the industry is, it’s always changing. There’s always something that is new happening. There’s always something that is exciting happening. There’s always something that is dynamic that is happening. What I am noticing now is a lot of our industry is technology-driven. So we’re bringing the AI into the stores.

We’re bringing platforms. We’re bringing the apps. We’re bringing the virtual try-ons, and that is something that is really big. What I’m also noticing is that there’s such a focus on this technology and driving this kind of experience is that we’re getting away from the people.

I’ve said it a million times over. People are the core of this industry. We’re creating the programs. We’re creating the garments. We’re creating the platforms. We’re creating everything that the customer needs to use. And I’ve always said it. Technology is a great addition, but it’s also not a fix. That’s what I’m noticing right now in the industry.

[00:08:49] Bill: Yeah. It’s not always the solution. We just had a meeting this morning when we’re talking about AI, and there’s those that view AI as a partner and this extension of their job and somebody that’s going to help them to do their jobs better.

We’ve had a lot of conversations about AI over the last year plus probably. I did mention to the team, I said, “There isn’t a podcast that we’ve done probably in a couple of years, where those two letters of the alphabet didn’t come up.” And thank you for bringing it up. Keep that chain alive.

[00:09:25] Robert: Yes.

[00:09:26] Bill: One of the things as a young leader and somebody that’s doing what you do, you see what others are doing, whether they’re your boss or colleagues, peers, and they have certain traits that you think maybe help them succeed and that you want to emulate. What are some of those that you’ve wanted to really home in on and be as good as, if not better than, somebody else that you’ve seen do the exact same thing?

[00:09:53] Robert: Thank you for that. The most aspiring leaders to me have always been compassionate. You can make a schedule, expect them to come to work, perform, and then they go home. Things happen. Retail doesn’t happen in a straight line. Life doesn’t happen in a straight line.

My most successful leaders and the ones that I’ve bonded the best with have been compassionate, have seen me do really great work. And they have also been able to be compassionate when I wasn’t performing my best. Transparency is super important within leadership. I’m not what I like to call an ivory tower manager.

I give a directive or give a bunch of rules, run off a bunch of numbers, and then I go to the office. It is super important for me to be visible with my team so they know that my presence is there. It’s felt. Also, they know that they can lean on me, ask me questions, and feel that I’m really a part of the larger team.

I’m not afraid to be vulnerable, and I think that’s super important. I don’t know what I do not know, and specifically within newer roles, especially in this echelon of retail, there’s a lot to learn. I’ve been in this current role for a couple of months. I manage people on my team that have been in the business 20 years.

And so, coming in, being able to build up that respect is something that I gravitate toward and being able to say to them, “Hey, I need your help with something.” Because I’d rather ask for the help and not be afraid to ask for the help, which I think is super important, as opposed to me try to take it on because of my leadership role in the store and then I end up doing it wrong and creating this entire mess that doesn’t have to be.

Also, I like managers that have emotion but are objective. We’re not dealing with robots. We’re not dealing with faces on the screen all the time. We’re not dealing with programs. We’re dealing with people. I think it’s important to have emotion. I think it’s important to, where applicable, show that emotion and show that compassion.

I can’t have an expectation of my team to really want to get to know their clients and their customers, to create an experience for them, but then I don’t give that back to my workers that are working for me. That is a major disconnect.

[00:12:01] Bill: Yeah. I think that a key takeaway from that answer, I believe, is that you have to have empathy. You have to have curiosity, and you have to have respect for those that you’re working with, both what they’ve done in the past and how you can work together moving forward. The other thing that I tell people all the time is that some of the best lessons you learn in managing people or just being a good manager are those lessons you learn from people who aren’t good managers, that you’ve worked for, you’ve observed and you’ve seen the results. And so your key takeaway there is I would never do that.

I think that’s important. It’s important to look at what people do right, and it’s important to look at what people don’t do right, and learn from both of those instances. So it’s a great lesson, Robert, because the empathy is just so incredibly important. And it really does help to build a stronger bond between you and the people that work with you or for you. So I think that was a great answer.

[00:13:04] Robert: Thank you.

[00:13:04] Bill: Now, you were recently featured in an NRF Foundation blog where you said, and I’m quoting you, “It is crucial for young professionals to see that despite roadblocks, with the right tools, heart, and support, they can succeed.” You used a couple of words there I want to dive a little bit deeper on. What are those tools that you’re talking about, and what kind of support are you talking about?

[00:13:30] Robert: To reflect back on your response to my last answer, you have to stay curious. You’re consistently reading about the industry. You’re consistently searching things out, figuring things out, making yourself knowledgeable because that’s also what’s going to help you to compete in this really vast industry.

I would say, if you’re in school, partnering with your teachers that are in this industry. It helped me tremendously. I had a great team of teachers, and when I was at Columbia College in Chicago and having meetings with them, having talks with them, asking questions about this industry and just staying curious around that.

The tool that helped me specifically was getting my degree. I have the people part of the retail jobs now, but what I didn’t have was the business acumen to allow me to compete for the roles that I did in the last couple of years. You have to learn how to effectively run a business.

You have to be able to read numbers. You have to be able to read reports and merchandise and do all of those things. And that was the key that I was missing. So if there are some ways to get some type of formal educational training around that, I would definitely say do that.

Also, visit the stores that you want to work in. I have done that for years, which is why Gucci was so — I’ve been trying to get a job with them for the past maybe five or six years. So when I would travel — I’ve been to the one in Rodeo Drive. I’ve been to a couple in New York. I’ve gone to the one in Chicago, and I’ve visited the one in D.C., so that way you can familiarize yourself with product, the people, see how they move, and see how they work.

The roadblocks that I had to overcome specifically for me was thinking that I didn’t have enough to offer. And that’s more of a personal thing. I had been out of school for well over a decade, and a lot of people don’t know this, Bill, but when I applied to Columbia College in Chicago, I actually did not get in the first time.

I remember getting the letter, and after talking myself out of, I don’t need to go back to school. I’ve had a pretty great career. But there was always that small piece in the back of my mind that was like, “Robert, you could be doing a little bit more.” But I’m like, “I’m doing OK.”

My partner at the time, because we weren’t married, was working at the school, and he got the letter. He was like, “Are you comfortable with this answer?” And I said, no, but he said no. But he said it’s a yes or no. It’s a yes or no question. Ended up going back to the school, talking to whoever he needed to talk to in admissions.

I had to do a couple of things that I ended up getting in, which also goes back into my first answer, having the right people around you that support you, that want to see you succeed, that want to see you take that leap forward, that want you to be the best that you can be.

[00:16:05] Bill: Right. That’s a pretty phenomenal story. It’s the “get up and never give up.” That’s pretty awesome. So you’re at Gucci. What’s your favorite product right now?

[00:16:18] Robert: Oh, that’s such a hard question. There’s a product that they no longer make, and I should have bought it when I saw it a couple of years ago. I’m really getting into mules right now. They have what’s called a Princetown loafer, and they have several different styles for women, but they stopped making it for men. And it’s increasingly hard to find in my size. That’s a really great product.

We have what is called the Marmont bag, and we just redid it. So now instead of the traditional calfskin, which was a little bit stiffer, we are now doing it in the lambskin. It is super soft. We changed the hardware. It is just a really great all-around bag. So I’m actually excited to see once I get to Italy where I can find myself one for a good price.

What else do I like? Our fragrances are actually — and I’m not really big on floral-based fragrances, but we have this entire floral line, and it smells really, really good. So I often do a little dab just in the morning. And it also helps me, oh, what are you wearing? Oh, let me walk you over to the fragrance wall.

[00:17:22] Bill: Cool. You’ve given folks a lot of reasons to go check Gucci out. It sounds like you’ve got some great products online. So Robert, one piece of advice that you would give to C-suite leaders who are looking to better connect and manage with young leaders like yourself.

[00:17:40] Robert: Listening to the front line. I spoke earlier about being an ivory tower manager, where I’m hidden away and the only thing that I see is black and white reports and numbers. The front-line workers are the ones that are in real time with the customers.

So they’re able to see their response to product. They’re able to see what is working, what’s not working. They’re able to identify opportunities for growth, or maybe we need to pull back these, scale some things a lot faster. Simplifying the strategy is another one, which is super important to me. There have been many times within my career where I have received a directive from a higher-up, and it looks like hieroglyphics because this part doesn’t match this part.

I can’t understand this, and then you have to email four or five different people to get an answer. The actions that they need from us should be actionable, and they should be simple. I should not have to decode them to figure out what it is that needs to be done.

And I spoke on this earlier, technology is a tool. It is not a fix. If we put so much technology in the store, but it doesn’t really elevate or create a more seamless experience for the customer, then it doesn’t need to be there. If we want to do self-checkouts, which is great, but if the machines are constantly crashing, they don’t take certain cards, or it’s cash only, a card only, then it doesn’t really help the overall experience for the customers.

Invest in your people, not just the products. This is something that I lean heavily into, and this is something that I would tell C-suite leaders, “You guys aren’t coming to the stores as often.” You have to really get to know your people on your teams and outside of the ones that are sitting in the boardroom.

Recognize the small wins. I am very big on this, and I have this thing I do in my floor where it’s like snaps. If I see a really great interaction, and it doesn’t have to be an interaction that ends with a purchase, but I saw that you hit all of the steps, I saw that you had a really great interaction, I saw that the seed was planted, celebrate those small wins.

We may not have hit the goal for the month, but there was celebration along the way. I’m sorry, I got a list because I’m always — I got one more. I got one more. Growth isn’t just about the expansion of the stores. It’s also about the people.

I would rather have three really great run stores that are sound operationally, making great money, that people are taken care of, as opposed to having 10 stores in an attempt to gain more revenue, but the stores are run poorly. There’s no retention. It’s high turnover. So just really focus on what you have, build that out, and then expand where necessary.

[00:20:24] Bill: Yes. That’s great. That’s absolutely fantastic. Who inspires you?

[00:20:29] Robert: Oh my God. You know I’m a crier. I’m like, so if I — this answer, I may start, actually, I will start with my younger brother, Franklin. Franklin’s wanted to be a teacher since he was in diapers, and that’s exactly what he is doing now. And he has not strayed from that path.

He recognized what it was that he wanted to do really early on. While I’ve always worked with people, I’ve worked in a couple of different industries because I’m still figuring it out. Franklin knew from a very early age, and that is something that I’ve always admired him. He’s very wise.

My mother, obviously, my parents — my mother and my stepfather, they were the ones that pushed me. You need to go back to school. Get back to school, go, go, go, go, go.

And when I was even competing for the scholarship of NRF, if I was studying or doing something at their house, there was a meal ready. There was a quiet space for me to study and for me to take my calls. My husband. He pushes me in a way that there’s intent behind it. It’s not just pushing me to just do and to just be.

It’s, if this is something that you want, you need to go after it, and I’m going to help you get there. And he has been a balanced amount of support through my retail career, through me finishing school, and me doing all the things that I do for NRF for sure.

[00:22:05] Bill: Yeah. Robert Davison Long, it has been a pleasure talking with you. I’ve learned a lot, and I’m old. And so I’m grateful for that. Always open to learn more, and you definitely came through on that regard. And thank you all for listening to another episode of Retail Gets Real. Now you can find more information about this episode at retailgetsreal.com. I’m Bill Thorne. This is Retail Gets Real. Thanks for listening.